The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[F5 Dave]

He's even lazier than that. Std pipe fitted in RGV chassis.

[Drew]

He's even lazier than that. Std pipe fitted in RGV chassis.

Lazier, but that is better for making my point.

The thing is peaky as all fuck, and quite a challenge to go fast on. So, some tuning is required to make it worth just the effort been put into this thread.

[F5 Dave]

That's positive. I have just caught up in it.....and I think its going no where at all.

The people whom have said no - have not entertained any suggestions that there are ways for it to work. As far as they are concerned - MX85's are race engines and the rules state "No race engines".
They don't want this rule to change - and can't see anyway where an MX85 is not a race engine.

I believe the term is Stalemate.

Which raises a question - if an MX85 engine came as standard in a scooter. Would it then be allowed to be used in buckets?

Lool I'm sorry I've been rude to you before.

But why the fuck do you come here? You have no place here and you're a complete dickhead. Fuck off.

[husaberg]

I voted no but maybe comming around a bit (even though i may have wasted $3000 on the wrong build thus far.)
But as i see it the parts have to be opened up esp bearings rods etc for all........

[CM2005]

I voted no but maybe comming around a bit (even though i may have wasted $3000 on the wrong build thus far.)
But as i see it the parts have to be opened up esp bearings rods etc for all........

Wow that's alot of money, i could buy this :http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...=728992348#qna under the proposed format, fit some scooter tyres and do a piston for under 1500 dollars.

you know that just because its an MX engine it doesn't mean it has super special rods, bearings gaskets etc right? I'm sure the conrod is probably made to the same tolerance and metal type as an FXR rod. Bearing wise there's nothing to stop you going to your local engineering shop and buying the bearings you need, you don't have to buy OEM!
Don't confuse works AMA supercross bike with mass produced kids mx bikes

[husaberg]

Wow that's alot of money, i could buy this :http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...=728992348#qna under the proposed format, fit some scooter tyres and do a piston for under 1500 dollars.

you know that just because its an MX engine it doesn't mean it has super special rods, bearings gaskets etc right? I'm sure the conrod is probably made to the same tolerance and metal type as an FXR rod. Bearing wise there's nothing to stop you going to your local engineering shop and buying the bearings you need, you don't have to buy OEM!
Don't confuse works AMA supercross bike with mass produced kids mx bikes

Cost is relative but if you attempt to build a legal hot water cooled two stroke with case reed and a PV and triple exhaust ports things can add up.
I am not moaning it could be done for far less with more compromises its just beer money for some, spread out.
It could also have been done far cheaper with currently illegal parts

MX is competition i would have had a far easier and cheaper job if i could have selected a competition rod and crank.
Dave and Mike would have saved a lot of money without having to destroke their cranks a few mm so they could legally use strike 52mm pistons.
They never complained why? cause that is the current rules.......Same for all.
Its the price of staying legal, when pursuing the best end results...........
Dave's motor would likely be far more reliable (if i may be so bold to suggest hope you don't mind Dave its not a jibe)if he had have been say able to use say a CR85 crankcase and water pump set up.

Oh bearings from the bearing shop wish i had thought of that.

[avgas]

Yes. It would then come from a non competition bike.

Here's a good way around it that stirred some shit a while back.

http://raresportbikesforsale.com/tag/nsr80/

To my mind, this makes the CR80 legal.

Hmmmm
So are homologation bikes allowed?

I mean if I buy a Derbi 80cc Road Race supersport (fake bike - don't look it up) which effectively a racebike, but attempted to sell to the commuter customer market.
Could that be raced?

What I think we have right now is a problem with definition. We are claiming engines are race engines according to the chassis they are bolted into. Where in buckets you ripping it out of that chassis and putting it in a race chassis anyway.........
I think if we had 85mx engines in commuters - we suddenly would not have this definition problem.

i.e. either you can't get a 2-stroke 85cc non-race motor? or we are looking at the irrelevant frame/chassis too much and saying its a racebike?

From recall the PW80 is no longer available which means in the Yamaha new MX bike engines you are looking at the TTR110 @ 7hp or yz85 @ 15hp.
In the commuter you have nothing except 125cc scooter.
So basically that is 1 manufacturer out. (in the US at least - mabey NZ has better farm selection?)

So perhaps someone could do the other manufacturers. Lets see what new engines are actually available to future bucket users. That should decide the rules.

Other you will end up in a shambles like all those pre-8X, post-8X races I see (that keep moving the cut-off year).

I would hate to see you all nursing old motors or riding briggs and stratton 10 years from now because we decided to stay high an mighty about what we are willing to accept as a challenge.

[Yow Ling]

Hmmmm
So are homologation bikes allowed?

I mean if I buy a Derbi 80cc Road Race supersport (fake bike - don't look it up) which effectively a racebike, but attempted to sell to the commuter customer market.
Could that be raced?

What I think we have right now is a problem with definition. We are claiming engines are race engines according to the chassis they are bolted into. Where in buckets you ripping it out of that chassis and putting it in a race chassis anyway.........
I think if we had 85mx engines in commuters - we suddenly would not have this definition problem.

i.e. either you can't get a 2-stroke 85cc non-race motor? or we are looking at the irrelevant frame/chassis too much and saying its a racebike?

From recall the PW80 is no longer available which means in the Yamaha new MX bike engines you are looking at the TTR110 @ 7hp or yz85 @ 15hp.
In the commuter you have nothing except 125cc scooter.
So basically that is 1 manufacturer out. (in the US at least - mabey NZ has better farm selection?)

So perhaps someone could do the other manufacturers. Lets see what new engines are actually available to future bucket users. That should decide the rules.

Other you will end up in a shambles like all those pre-8X, post-8X races I see (that keep moving the cut-off year).

I would hate to see you all nursing old motors or riding briggs and stratton 10 years from now because we decided to stay high an mighty about what we are willing to accept as a challenge.

What is this we shit? you live in another country might as well be mars.
WE understand the current rules, the current choice of engines does not set the rules, Frames have nothing to do with anything.
Scooters and monkey bikes are out. NZ has no problems with stinkwheels.
FXRs are not particularly old, still available, reasonably priced for their potential, plenty of parts available.
Isnt briggs and stratton a lawn mower engine? have you ever read the rules?

[Drew]

What is this we shit? you live in another country might as well be mars.
WE understand the current rules, the current choice of engines does not set the rules, Frames have nothing to do with anything.
Scooters and monkey bikes are out. NZ has no problems with stinkwheels.
FXRs are not particularly old, still available, reasonably priced for their potential, plenty of parts available.
Isnt briggs and stratton a lawn mower engine? have you ever read the rules?

Wait, scooter motors aren't allowed? I thought there was a sidecar made from a scooter, it ran at the GP 'n' all...though Tina and Gordy were fucken spastic on it.

[TZ350]

WE understand the current rules, the current choice of engines does not set the rules. Scooters and monkey bikes are out.

Wait, scooter motors aren't allowed? I thought there was a sidecar made from a scooter, it ran at the GP 'n' all...

Good point, racing Scooters are another class but I to thought scooter engines/transmissions are Ok for Buckets but looking at the rules, again, apparently not.

24.2 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be no restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may be turbo or supercharged. F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburetion equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.

[Drew]

Good point, racing Scooters are another class but I to thought scooter engines/transmissions are Ok for Buckets but looking at the rules, again, apparently not.

24.2 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be no restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may be turbo or supercharged. F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburetion equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.

Did you quote the wrong rule, or are you taking the piss?

I was thinking about a scooter motor, since fuel injected two strokes are readily available. They're all 125 or bigger though.

It seems there really is nothing currently, that is an easy bolt in and thrash option for lazy coonts like me.

[Grumph]

Did you quote the wrong rule, or are you taking the piss?

I was thinking about a scooter motor, since fuel injected two strokes are readily available. They're all 125 or bigger though.

It seems there really is nothing currently, that is an easy bolt in and thrash option for lazy coonts like me.

i'd assume at this stage of the thread, he is taking the piss - as legally, there's no difference between a scooter and a motorcycle. Both powered two wheelers....

You lot do realise that in the SI at least, we've had what pretty well equates to an 80cc motocross motor running in an RS frame for several years ? The Grey's Kawasaki 80 powered RS is unquestionably derived from a road bike - and runs well up the field when they bring it out. But by no means does it dominate....even though there is plenty of room for development left.

Again, i have no stance - but this one shows how it could work.

[TZ350]

Did you quote the wrong rule.

No don't think so, am I missing something?, it would not be the first time.

I was thinking about a scooter motor, since fuel injected two strokes are readily available. They're all 125 or bigger though.

I was shocked that I had overlooked/forgotten the "derived from motorcycles" bit because I have one of these tucked away. Water cooled 150cc CVT 2.5x17" front rim 3.5x16" rear rim, could argue its a motorcycle but it is sold as a scooter.

Was watching Sketchys project with interest as this could possibly be converted to 100 and supercharged and the water cooling would be a big plus. Or if the rules change to allow MX85's and 200cc 2 valvers, which this could become, whatever, this might be an interesting Bucket.



I was tossing up whether to use the complete GTR rolling chassis or to fit the engine/transmission into a MC21 frame for something different. Weight might be a deciding factor on which frame to use.

And there are a few 2T 50cc CVT scooter units under the bench at work just in case we feel the urge to make some sort of hybrid F5 penny farthing thing.

[Yow Ling]

i'd assume at this stage of the thread, he is taking the piss - as legally, there's no difference between a scooter and a motorcycle. Both powered two wheelers....

You lot do realise that in the SI at least, we've had what pretty well equates to an 80cc motocross motor running in an RS frame for several years ? The Grey's Kawasaki 80 powered RS is unquestionably derived from a road bike - and runs well up the field when they bring it out. But by no means does it dominate....even though there is plenty of room for development left.

Again, i have no stance - but this one shows how it could work.

Greys Kawasaki is an AR80 a roadbike so legal.

[TZ350]

you lot do realize that in the si at least, we've had what pretty well equates to an 80cc motocross motor running in an rs frame for several years ? The grey's kawasaki 80 powered rs is unquestionably derived from a road bike - and runs well up the field when they bring it out. But by no means does it dominate....

AR80 ....... there are air cooled and H2O versions, the H2O version looks very much like an early MX80 engine to me.