The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[Skunk]

So, no testing the idea to see if it works or not then.
Or is any organiser open the idea on non points races and just hasn't said so?


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[Henk]

I have no issue with someone building one as a proof of concept and I believe sketchy has already done this. I'd let them run at practice at Mt Welly but not in a race until they are legal.
I'm not sure what this would prove though, we know it can be done. The cynical bastard in me also says that anyone building one of these so that we can evaluate it is going to be firmly in the camp of wanting them in, they are hardly going to build something as fast as possible to start with, more likely to be a stock engine to start with and then start with the tuning once it's all go.
I can understand why people want these in, I'm just not all that convinced that we need it at the moment.

[Skunk]

Sketchy has built one and it is fast with him on it. But then my bucket was pretty good with him on it.
Yes, it is standard. Why not make that the rule?
Everyone goes on about how people will cheat and port them and everything but I've never seen any bike checked for capacity or race parts before anyway - so that argument is a non starter. Ie a bullshit excuse because they don't want them in for whatever reason.
I wasn't sure about it and told Sketchy I wasn't in favour of them. I have seen it. I think it will work with a couple of restrictions.
100cc two strokes have rule restrictions, 125cc two strokes have rule restrictions, four strokes have rule restrictions. Has anyone even looked at the various restrictions in F3? They work. Don't give another shit excuse about the rules will be unfair.
Or is everyone worried they might be outclassed, or is it that they only race because they can win and are scared of coming third?
Everything should be done to keep the class relevant and up to date. Certainly this has happened for the four strokes but not for the two strokes.
Even it up.
Give more options.
Or should we move the four strokes back to 125cc like they were and continue living in the 80s?

And no, I don't want to build one... Power valves, water cooling, it's all too complex for me.


If it ain't smokin' - it's broken.

[Mental Trousers]

How about a table.

	4 stroke	2 stroke
ace tuners	well catered for	well catered for
not tuners	FXR's galore	???

[TZ350]

Glen on bike 47 was in the races but not counted for points as the bike isn't legal. His on Track finishes were first in all races!

Not bad for a standard MX85???

[Henk]

I used to be dead against the whole idea, but I'm reconsidering.
I do think that if this goes ahead that stock won't work.
I also don't think all that many will get built, the change to the rules to allow FXRs was to make a bike that was readily available eligible. An MX based bike isn't a simple spoon on some slicks proposition.
I know it's the two stroke fans that are pushing this barrow but it those same guys that are most likely to be pissed about it as well. Those who have been putting in the work to get the performance they want under the current rules.
I can think of six two strokes off the top of my head that are performing as well or better than what a stock 85 is being suggested at.

[Mental Trousers]

Glen on bike 47 was in the races but not counted for points as the bike isn't legal. His on Track finishes were first in all races!

Not bad for a standard MX85???

Fixed that for you. As already mentioned Sketchy is a much better rider than most and on that day in that field will probably finish first on whatever he rides.

[quallman1234]

Fixed that for you. As already mentioned Sketchy is a much better rider than most and on that day in that field will probably finish first on whatever he rides.

I had a drag today with Sketchy on my FXR with a pipe/carb on it (~14hp). Nothing in it down a reasonably long straight (for bucket standards).
There was no one super fast out today. Sketchy would of won on any of the top 5 bikes there.
Its honestly not fast at all. Dave rode it, and will report in .

Ps. Its a RM85 in a RGV250 VJ21, with a GSXR600 rear shock. Handling wise its pretty good.

Remember Sketchy = Glen Skachill = Attended 3 National championship series in the 600 class. With many wins in that class, but unfortunately no championship.
Lap records : Manfield both F3 and 600's (I believe it has now been broken the 600 one), lap record hampton 600 (?) and i believe F3 lap record @ Pukie.
So yeah no average rider mate .

[avgas]

why the fuck do you come here? You have no place here and you're a complete dickhead. Fuck off.

Terribly sorry, I don't have time to read every post. I missed this one completely completely.

It was a reply to a post that only stated the situation. So clearly curse words rather than content get you up votes.
Hopefully by reposting it here - you get some more.

But I am curious are you now going against MX85's because I support them? At which case I will leave - on the proviso you go back to support them.
Keep in mind you opened the argument, so I figure you were changing towards them.

[avgas]

No mate not at all. If someone on a not bucket legal but fast machine was allowed to race in points paying events that rider could and probably would have an effect on the other legal bikes points paying positions. If you want to race in buckets get a legal bike, there are plenty of options for all budgets.
BTW buckets isn't 'entry class' as you but it.

Ah fair call. I misinterpreted it as "If your not in ranking for points don't race" - meaning those who are only attending one or a few races shouldn't attend.
Yes illegal machines is a different dilemma.

Out of interest - where would you rank buckets in the racing classes? Not arguing with it being entry (anymore). But I curious to see where you see buckets as a class.
My greatest fear is that the next new young thing will skip buckets and go straight to 125's. But that could be the way people rank the class these days.
If so - its a shame because Buckets was a great class to get a broad field of riders into one class. And with 150 streetstock disappearing into the background.....125 would be the next obvious choice to me for someone who wants to go racing (and is told they aren't skilled enough to do buckets).

[jasonu]

My next post will blow this thread open. Have to wait till tomorrow. Photos included.

Finally coming out eh Dave???
No need for pix mate...

[jasonu]

So, no testing the idea to see if it works or not then.
Or is any organiser open the idea on non points races and just hasn't said so?


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

How many no's do you need to get the message?
Get a legal bike and race as much as you want.

[TZ350]

Sketchy is a much better rider than most and on that day in that field will probably finish first on whatever he rides.

Its pretty obvious that if your not a good rider, your not going to be at the front no matter what you ride and Sketchys efforts show that a std MX85 can do the job.

We have a young guy up here doing very well on a tuned 85 too, so small 2T's in a light bike ridden by a skilled rider can be very competitive.

I do think that if this goes ahead that stock won't work.
I also don't think all that many will get built, the change to the rules to allow FXRs was to make a bike that was readily available eligible. An MX based bike isn't a simple spoon on some slicks proposition.

Totally agree, a keep it stock rule won't work but MX85 or tuned 85 something else is no easy path to the pointy end.

[Skunk]

So what you're saying is all 100's and 125's are legal without checking but the same people can't be trusted to make a legal 85 or that getting a standard 85 is not possible?


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[Skunk]

How many no's do you need to get the message?
Get a legal bike and race as much as you want.

Jeez you're a bit of a fuckwit aren't you? This thread is discussing how and if to bring in 85's. Not what the rules are. There is an 'or' in there if you read. Last time I checked you didn't currently organise races so shut up and let them reply.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.