The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[andrew a]

Ah fair call. I misinterpreted it as "If your not in ranking for points don't race" - meaning those who are only attending one or a few races shouldn't attend.
Yes illegal machines is a different dilemma.

Out of interest - where would you rank buckets in the racing classes? Not arguing with it being entry (anymore). But I curious to see where you see buckets as a class.

The most cost effective fun competitive class in the World!

[Pumba]

I know I should feed the troll but fuck it you are starting to piss me off

....Out of interest - where would you rank buckets in the racing classes? Not arguing with it being entry (anymore). But I curious to see where you see buckets as a class........

My answer who gives a fuck. To me it is a great social class that is affordable that I enjoy racing. Any class is whatever you want it to be. There is nothing stopping you being an "entry level" rider on a superbike (probally opening another can of worms with that statement if Billy sees it but that is not the point). Sure in my opinion (and many others) it is not the best place to start racing, but if that is what yoiu choose to do then you can.

My greatest fear is that the next new young thing will skip buckets and go straight to 125's. But that could be the way people rank the class these days.

Sure there is a logical progression that you start on smaller machines and progress learning skill, blah, blah, blah..... until you become MotoGP champ becasue that is what every fucking competative racer wants to be and that is all we should cater for in NZ

If little fucking Johnny (or Johnny's Dad if he is paying the bills), or for that matter 20 somthing year old Steve earning good money a year with no wife and kids, thinks nah buckets arnt for me than that is there choice

if so - its a shame because Buckets was a great class to get a broad field of riders into one class. And with 150 streetstock disappearing into the background.....125 would be the next obvious choice to me for someone who wants to go racing (and is told they aren't skilled enough to do buckets).

And I see no reason for the make up of the class to change with or without the 85's. I cannot even fathom anybody ever telling anyone that they arenot skilled enough to do buckets most "real road racers" thinkk we are pond scum and a large portion will tell us to our face.

Now I am sure you are having fun but pull your fucking head in and stop comenting and matters you know nothing about.

[F5 Dave]

Well the opportunity arose to ride this cheat bike in the weekend. In the spirit of full cheat process I slipped out in B grade to increase the general level of cheatability.

Glen rode my 50 for giggles. This posed a problem. Clearly I couldn’t let him beat me.

We started a couple of corners back from the startline so not to burgle the B graders till they sorted themselves out.

First impressions were Golly this bike is tall & where the hell are the footpegs. Ooof yup ok on them. I’ve always raced 50s & they are small & I’ve made them as low to the ground as possible. The H100 I raced for several years was more like a trailbike.

But my strengths sadly are not for quick adaption to other bikes. Esp when the pegs are so high I can’t hang off properly. No matter.

Get a good launch outdragging Glen next to me, Ha!

Ok fast forward a few laps while I start to get my head around this bike. I might mention that by this time Glen has passed me & buggered off. But I won’t.
My lasting impression is that if I could get my 50 to go this well I’d be rapt. You can learn to keep it on the boil but you need to use the clutch & every gear you can throw at it.

But its not quick. No chance of outdragging anyone. If my 100 was this slow I’d assume something was wrong with it.

By the time I’m back in the pits I’d figured that std these things aren’t much chop at all.

OK so how good is Glen’s motor? Freshly rebuilt, squish done, ignition set up on the dyno. Powervalves which are apparently very touchy were set up on the dyno. Only thing that hasn’t been sorted on the dyno is the jetting. It feels about right but there might be more to come.

Oh here are a couple of pics.

You might note the tongue in cheek writing on the barrel. But the muppet chose a Enduro bike. Should have said DS80 or something.

[kel]

But its not quick. No chance of outdragging anyone. If my 100 KEPT GOING FOR THIS LONG I’d assume something was wrong with it.

Fixed it for you

[F5 Dave]

I resemble that statement

[Skunk]

Confirms what I suspected. A skilled rider can go fast but it won't help a slow one. It looks good at this stage as an engine option.
Now we need to check out a worked engine to be sure before any rule changes get proposed.
It would be good if this can all be checked at Ruapuna as well.
FXRs 'saved' buckets but killed your average two strokes. Let's not do the same again.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[cotswold]

I like this idea because I love 2 strokes, they are more satisfying to ride just because they are more difficult to go fast on, I am not a tuner, I can barely handle a spanner which is the reason that during the 10 years I raced 125's in Pomgolia I had a mechanic.
I would just be happy to get out on the track with a 2T that is not all special parts and is freely available. You detractors have mentioned the Derbi that cleans up the field where ever it goes, show me where I can get one for $650 and I'll buy it, I still would not win on it.
I could still be riding Johns FXR, don't get me wrong I enjoyed riding it but it did not tick all the box's, I tried building a GP125 but ran out enthusiasm as time went on because they are not that dumb-ass friendly to build and some of the tricky bits I needed to rely on other folk who also have their own lives to live and projects to be getting on with.
I have been happier on my crappy old 50 not being lapped by Tim and DD than when I finished 3rd in the NI's on an FXR.
Let them in and if they clean up (which they wont) add a few amendments to the rules.

[F5 Dave]

Well I think we need to move with caution. MNZ rules are not decided by Kiwibiker threads, but this is a good medium to float some ideas about.

The increase in capacity from 125 to 140 for diesels evened up the field somewhat, meant you could buy a Lonchin or GL or overbore your CB. The move to 150 let in FXRs and made the 2 valver 4 strokers obsolete. (ok maybe JC's 140 twins, - but look who was piloting them). It also made older 2 strokes obsolete unless you knew what you were doing & could tune the crap out of them.

Anyone disagree with the above statement?

I don't think anyone would disagree with the sentiment that that rule change boosted bucket numbers (& possibly 'saved' bucket racing, or at least made it far more popular, I think it would be going still just not as popular).

I'm now confident MX85s in std form will not obsolete anything in the way FXRs did. At least RM85s won't. So what if a Euro company produces a real monster? Maybe the new KTM is that monster?

And what of the potential to tune them? These are things we should ruminate. If we did introduce them I'd favour a staged restriction like CDI & pipe diameter. I'd like to include pipe length to reduce revs but that's too hard to measure. Pipe diameter measurement is a piece of cardboard with a max slot cut into it.

[husaberg]

Well I think we need to move with caution. MNZ rules are not decided by Kiwibiker threads, but this is a good medium to float some ideas about.

The increase in capacity from 125 to 140 for diesels evened up the field somewhat, meant you could buy a Lonchin or GL or overbore your CB. The move to 150 let in FXRs and made the 2 valver 4 strokers obsolete. (ok maybe JC's 140 twins, - but look who was piloting them). It also made older 2 strokes obsolete unless you knew what you were doing & could tune the crap out of them.

Anyone disagree with the above statement?

I don't think anyone would disagree with the sentiment that that rule change boosted bucket numbers (& possibly 'saved' bucket racing, or at least made it far more popular, I think it would be going still just not as popular).

I'm now confident MX85s in std form will not obsolete anything in the way FXRs did. At least RM85s won't. So what if a Euro company produces a real monster? Maybe the new KTM is that monster?

And what of the potential to tune them? These are things we should ruminate. If we did introduce them I'd favour a staged restriction like CDI & pipe diameter. I'd like to include pipe length to reduce revs but that's too hard to measure. Pipe diameter measurement is a piece of cardboard with a max slot cut into it.

I know i sound like a broken record here but before we get to carried away why not fix the problems with the parts now before letting in COMP bikes.
I have ridden the newer KTM 50 and the 65 and with back to backs with the older versions they are a totally user friendly new breed.
I would expect the 85 is the same. They are not cheap either. so if it has to be done the late ones should be a no go area.
i think if letting them in is about "accessibility options" maybe no one should have issues with carb pipe, CDI std cc and std porting then?

[F5 Dave]

2010 cut off perhaps?

[F5 Dave]

Hey we're on the front Home page as 2nd on the most replied threads, presumably with a trending average over a recent period.

23 pages, sheesh!

[Drew]

I know i sound like a broken record here but before we get to carried away why not fix the problems with the parts now before letting in COMP bikes.
I have ridden the newer KTM 50 and the 65 and with back to backs with the older versions they are a totally user friendly new breed.
I would expect the 85 is the same. They are not cheap either. so if it has to be done the late ones should be a no go area.
i think if letting them in is about "accessibility options" maybe no one should have issues with carb pipe, CDI std cc and std porting then?

2010 cut off perhaps?

Oh yeah, implement a rule that means you can only get fucked ones. Good one!

Retarded I'm afraid guys, just fucken retarded. Isn't the goal to get a level playing field between two and four strokes, coupled with a decent availability of parts for all? Then putting an age limit on them to fuck all that right up.

[husaberg]

Oh yeah, implement a rule that means you can only get fucked ones. Good one!

Retarded I'm afraid guys, just fucken retarded. Isn't the goal to get a level playing field between two and four strokes, coupled with a decent availability of parts for all? Then putting an age limit on them to fuck all that right up.

Drew if people just keep banging on "it isn't about having the most HP" "it is about doing it cheap and easy cause i am not a tuner"
where is the issue.............
So is it then what you are really saying then is it is about having the most up to date engine with the most potential HP?
Because that has not been mentioned in the thread at all, as far as i am aware............

[Drew]

Drew if people just keep banging on "it isn't about having the most HP" "it is about doing it cheap and easy cause i am not a tuner"
where is the issue.............
So is it then what you are really saying then is it is about having the most up to date engine with the most potential HP?

I just want a semi competitive motor, to send people out on my bike with.

Without having to fuck around too much.

I can set a bike up, but getting a two stroke to run nice is not my strongest suit. Starting with old shitters just compounds the problem.

[Kickaha]

The move to 150 let in FXRs and made the 2 valver 4 strokers obsolete.

Wash your mouth out with battery acid you heathen, there were a lot of FXR riding poofters finishing behind me at BOB