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Thread: The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

  1. #16
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    17th April 2006 - 05:39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bucketracer View Post
    i think now , do what you want with a 80cc competition engine but no competition frames, forks, wheels etc ....buld it your self !! .you can have one without the other
    Maybe even the std frame to help with costs etc?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    Humm yea that's quite fair, I quite like that idea.

    Something like this needs to be submitted.

    Formula 4.
    Provisional class (non-GP). <85cc competition derived engines.
    Stock CDI. limited to maximum 28mm carb.
    No aftermarket cylinder kits.
    None competition frame, suspension and wheels.
    Race tires open.
    Note: to be reviewed 2016.


    It offers a good starting point for any Jonny to join in.
    Maybe we should build a conversion kit...

    Also offers up something to do with all the rolling FXR frames sitting in the back of your shed...
    yep or else it just ends up been a rs 80 and thats not what buckets was ever about

  3. #18
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    20th July 2010 - 07:56
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    85cc max, everthing else open or why bother. You'll never match the 94cc kit Derbis and they won't match the hot FXR's.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bucketracer View Post
    yep or else it just ends up been a rs 80
    we all ready have RS80's

  5. #20
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    20th July 2010 - 07:56
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    Oh and theres a reason the 150 four strokes replaced the 85cc two strokes, same would apply for buckets. The 85 is unlikely to be a winner even when fully worked but it does offer a decent available platform.

    Edit: I might be wrong as I just checked the Aus bucket championship points and RS85's 1st and 2nd, but then 150 four strokes for the next four places.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kel View Post
    85cc max, everthing else open or why bother. You'll never match the 94cc kit Derbis and they won't match the hot FXR's.
    Yea but you would have to say the derbi kits are a little on the grey side of things Kel; under the current rules.
    While it has been argued that they are not a performance I mean competition part, they are used as such in some countries..

    Quote Originally Posted by kel View Post
    Oh and theres a reason the 150 four strokes replaced the 85cc two strokes, same would apply for buckets. The 85 is unlikely to be a winner even when fully worked but it does offer a decent available platform.
    Yea but hard pressed really to get big numbers out of a road going 156cc four stroke... Lots of hard work to get us to that point (not mine though!! I'm not good enough to have a full GPR150 factory engine)
    I do agree a good basic engine to work with. No different than the TF100s back in the day...
    But I bet you, putting one in a RS/TZ etc and putting a young gun on it, it would be an equal weapon to the derbi...


    http://www.ozbucketracing.com/#

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kel View Post
    we all ready have RS80's
    honda?.....

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kel View Post
    Oh and theres a reason the 150 four strokes replaced the 85cc two strokes, same would apply for buckets. The 85 is unlikely to be a winner even when fully worked but it does offer a decent available platform.
    who won the gp

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by quallman1234 View Post
    You have to remember that you won't ever get crazy numbers out of an 80. As after all they are 80cc.

    Say you get it to a standard of a stock Honda RS125 engine.
    They are 40hp.... 40*8 = 320hp / Litre

    320hp / Litre Divide by 12.5 (to get to 80cc) is Only 25hp, which is a very high state of tune.
    An 80 like you describe is currently cleaning up, up here, and if you run the numbers again with the Aprilias 50hp you get an 80 with 32hp. I would think a reliable 30hp is quite possible from a water cooled 80.


  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bucketracer View Post
    who won the gp
    The RS80

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    Yea but you would have to say the derbi kits are a little on the grey side of things Kel; under the current rules.
    No not at all, they are perfectly legal under the current rules. Maybe thats a rule change submission for next year?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kel View Post
    The RS80
    there you go . honda rs frame with a engine that is all but a gp mx engine

  13. #28
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Ahh boolshit. That Derbi is a peaky 24-25hp. And a bit more than 80 I think but only a bit.

    And comparing it with the Works RSA is just moronic. C'mon, none of us are ever going to get anywhere near that potential are we? I mean really.


    The comparison with a 40hp RS125 is a target. Heck the RS125 is a HRC racebike. You're not going to beat that, but if you're real skilled you might get close. By the way most NF4s put on a dyno will muster mid to high 30s only, isn't that right Scott?


    The lap record Nat recently set is with the tamer engine, about 21hp. The spread of power is important on some kart tracks & the ability of the rider on a rough track is clearly the key factor here.
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  14. #29
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    The whole frame thing "one or other" is interesting, but I don't think its necessary given the current performance. I like those kind of rules in some classes, 2 valve, FI, water cooling, any 2 of the above sort of thing.

    std mx frame will be too restricting for size/geometry & add cost as shocks/forks would be Waaay too soft for a bloater adult. I rode a CR80 at Kaitoki many moons ago. bottomed out & sliding most corners. Knobblies weren't helping much
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
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  15. #30
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    Yea but you would have to say the derbi kits are a little on the grey side of things Kel; under the current rules.
    While it has been argued that they are not a performance I mean competition part, they are used as such in some countries..

    . .
    I still struggle with the legality & enforcement issues that could arrise + the pure chequebook racing bolt on ethos, but it potentially affects the 50 class more than the 100s as the cc is in the right ballpark & square engine advantage.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
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