The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[mr bucketracer]

Yeah but it doesn't mean you shouldn't maintain it.



Look all arguments aside, we all want the best for the sport and like anything in life we all have our opinions. I'm worried now that it is getting too personal and I don't want it turning into a storm in teacup.

Next opportunity a submission will be put forward to MNZ for a rule change, and it will be simply up to them to decide if it get accepted or not.

Until then the 85 will float about in Welly and hopfully my supercharger bike will turn up to a track soon

you already hit me with low blows , standard i'm happy , we already know they win gp's with a near mx type engine so what more do you need to know?

[steamroller]

Because they never will be, that simple.

Really, do you really think a 85cc two stroke will have the same power curve as a 150cc four stroke at the same peak HP??? Have you riden a small capacity 2T? There's a reason Daves 50cc lives with blue clutch plates and it's not because he love peaky power, its the by product of getting large peak HP out of little capacity motors.

becouse they never will ok. do you want 85 stock yes or no?

[mr bucketracer]

Because they never will be, that simple.

Really, do you really think a 85cc two stroke will have the same power curve as a 150cc four stroke at the same peak HP??? Have you riden a small capacity 2T? There's a reason Daves 50cc lives with blue clutch plates and it's not because he love peaky power, its the by product of getting large peak HP out of little capacity motors.

mikes 100 has no power valve and will bet you it will kill are 4 strokes in every way , what do yo think a power valve dose ?

[steamroller]

Ahh c'mon. Why would anyone buy a new TF unless you wanted it for its intended purpose to rape sheep in the top paddock or whatever it is is that they are supposed to be for?

haha i think one was in front of you at the gp that 2 things they are good for now

[steamroller]

haha i think one was in front of you at the gp that 2 things they are good for now

had a ride on it a few weeks ago real nice bike to ride so good its made me want one

[seymour14]

What might be more constructive would be to talk to Suzuki NZ and get them to bring TF and FXR motors in and sell them at cost +5%, the bonus being they can sell the parts needed for them to us later. Win/Win.

Maybe some day we will be on the 3 second Suzuki lead up to TV3 news weather forecast....

I will be protesting the Class change, with common sense.

[husaberg]

And what about the spread of power? Oh sorry broken record, but no one's listening.

I'm listening, but at 24hp with proper tuning the power spread, well it should be the same if not better as mikes 30hp MB100, Why wouldn't it be different.
If we actually look at your bike Dave, you have basically replicated what a MX85 design is, with hard work....

How come no one answered this?

Let's have a look from a different angle.

Back in the day, there was an enormous gap between race engines and road bikes. At the most basic level, like water cooling and shit. It was not cost effective to share very much of the technology between the disciplines. These days it is, and commuter bikes share the same basic designs. FXR is a four valve head, RG150 is a great start point for making a stupidly fast 150.

Alas, there aren't road bikes made of the 2 stroke variety that fit bucket cc limitations. So since there's no difference in potential IF there were road bikes, why not open an avenue that replicates a progression that would have happened if the tree huggers didn't change the course?

there are other options TZR125 DTR125 RG125 RG150's

[Sketchy_Racer]

you already hit me with low blows , standard i'm happy , we already know they win gp's with a near mx type engine so what more do you need to know?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself ... Standard I would be happy, mine is standard and is an awesome entry level motor.

becouse they never will ok. do you want 85 stock yes or no?

Standard I would be happy but personally I think just open the rules to all motors and just limit capacity.

mikes 100 has no power valve and will bet you it will kill are 4 strokes in every way , what do yo think a power valve dose ?

I know what a power valve does, on the 85 it does bugger all. It operates in a range that is useless for road racing. The dyno might be bollocks for numbers but as a comparator, it is good.

had a ride on it a few weeks ago real nice bike to ride so good its made me want one

Was that Ricks bike? I had a ride on his at kaitoke and was suitable impressed by the the power. TF motor, no idea what he's done to it

[kel]

mikes 100 has no power valve and will bet you it will kill are 4 strokes in every way , what do yo think a power valve dose ?

A well built 100cc water cooled non comp motor should walk all over a 150 four, just as it should walk all over a 85MX.
Power valves on small capacity bikes are over rated. On the big tracks they will always be fully open, on the small tracks they will have trouble keeping up with the rpm changes due to short gearing and clutch slipping out of corners. Aprilia didnt bother with power valves on their 125 GP bikes, they were used on 250 racers mainly to smooth the power delivery. They are not super chargers.
How about we make a concession that power valves must be hard wired open? I could live with that.
MX85 2 stroke vs 150 four stroke is a good match up and anyone that can run the numbers knows this. Both bikes will have their strengths and weaknesses, 4 strokes should dominate the kart tracks, the MX85's just might dominant the big tracks.

[Skunk]

Then some might want 150 air cooled 2T with 28 carb. Others might want 175cc 4t. The 85cc MX crowd might want over bore to 100cc. Where would it end?
There is nout all wrong with the rules as is.

Four strokes should be 145cc then. THAT would make it 'nout wrong with the rules as is'.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[Rick 52]

had a ride on it a few weeks ago real nice bike to ride so good its made me want one

Nothing wrong with a TF125 at all, it's a very nice engine, glad you enjoyed it as much as I do,
Reliable as clock work and lots of bottom end power, it's served me well with a NI championship and 3x 2nd places, it's leading the Auckland points at the mo, what more do you want ?
Cheap, reliable, abundant and still being made today.
Maybe it's just not cool because it started life as a farm bike !!

[Skunk]

If I give you an old one will you build me one just like yours for free? And do that for everyone who asks?


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Nothing wrong with a TF125 at all, it's a very nice engine, glad you enjoyed it as much as I do,
Reliable as clock work and lots of bottom end power, it's served me well with a NI championship and 3x 2nd places, it's leading the Auckland points at the mo, what more do you want ?
Cheap, reliable, abundant and still being made today.
Maybe it's just not cool because it started life as a farm bike !!

What's been done to your TF Rick?? As I said earlier I was very impressed with your motor but always assumed it's had a lot of development work.

[kel]

there are other options TZR125 DTR125 RG125 RG150's

Well thats just plain dumb. Was it suggested that the FXR's should all be sleeved down to 125cc? Probably was . Thankfully common sense prevailed on that one, and the class benefited no end.
Im glad we cant see who, and how they voted in the poll, but I'd put money on the fact that the people who voted no are the same ones that vote no to everything.

[husaberg]

Well thats just plain dumb. Was it suggested that the FXR's should all be sleeved down to 125cc? Probably was . Thankfully common sense prevailed on that one, and the class benefited no end.
Im glad we cant see who, and how they voted in the poll, but I'd put money on the fact that the people who voted no are the same ones that vote no to everything.

A well built 100cc water cooled non comp motor should walk all over a 150 four, just as it should walk all over a 85MX.
Power valves on small capacity bikes are over rated. On the big tracks they will always be fully open, on the small tracks they will have trouble keeping up with the rpm changes due to short gearing and clutch slipping out of corners. Aprilia didnt bother with power valves on their 125 GP bikes, they were used on 250 racers mainly to smooth the power delivery. They are not super chargers.
How about we make a concession that power valves must be hard wired open? I could live with that.
MX85 2 stroke vs 150 four stroke is a good match up and anyone that can run the numbers knows this. Both bikes will have their strengths and weaknesses, 4 strokes should dominate the kart tracks, the MX85's just might dominant the big tracks.

Not as dumb as saying the RSA125 and the RSW125 don't have power valves when they so plainly do.
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