Sorry but you seem to have missed the bit about not being tuners.
I'm a system admin but no matter how well I document things your average person couldn't even get close to what I do. Just because the documentation gives you exact details about how to do things doesn't mean you're capable of being a sys admin. Likewise not everyone can learn to tune engines no matter how basic it is or how well documented.
Whether it's being a sys admin or tuning 2T engines there's a certain mindset, background knowledge and skill set required before you can even start to think of doing either.
EDIT TZ350 and I were obviously writing replies at the same time. See http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130724010 for his counter to this
Also, simply getting people involved and racing gets them on the path to tuning engines.
Same thing said a different way.
I agree with both of those as well.
EDIT
Yay!!
Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
F4 rules I would like to see:-
MX engines, limited to 85cc no other restrictions
100cc 2t no other restrictions max overbore 110cc to allow for all the common makes of 2T to use the KX100 52mm piston as 107 only allows the Honda MB100 to use it.
Non Competition engine based.
125cc 2t 24mm carb no other restrictions 138cc (10%) max over size. allows for the 4 common 0.5mm over bore steps.
150cc 4 valve 4Ts (10% max oversize)
200cc 2 valve 4Ts (10% max oversize)
I was just thinking NC (non competition) 125 2T but may be NC air cooled no other restriction and NC 125 2T water cooled with a suitable carb restriction.
Thoughts.....
Maybe by the time for the next rule submissions we could have a well thrashed out Bucket application that is supported by pretty much everyone.
My post showed there were plenty of good std reliable readily available and legal 2T's to be had without going to MX85's.
And I see the ESE thread as less about documentation and more about insights into the science and art of 2T tuning, things for the practitioner to absorb and apply in their own way.
Participation in Buckets has always accommodated those who starting out lacked basic tuning knowledge and mechanical skills but racing success there does not accommodate those that do not want to or can't learn or don't want to make the effort and that is how it should be, there are other classes for that.
But I am beginning to see how the proposed MX85 thing could help get people started and maybe hooked on 2t's.
You have built a potential weapon. You don't ride it though. Are you saying Av can't have another go untill she fully grasps the way it is built?
Doesn't leave a lot of room for me. I enjoy the engineering of the bike. Setting up geometry and suspension, and trying to lose weight from the machine. I am not inclined to do a great deal of work on motors, though I am appropriately skilled that I could learn to.
Here is a 1mm OS KT100 piston.
Sure 52 gives 106, but don't these pistons come in 52+somethings out to 2mm OS?
Suzuki TF/TS/GP100 50mm bore 50mm stroke.
50mm bore 50mm stroke (5x5x3.1416x5)/4 = 98.18cc
52mm bore 50mm stroke (5.2x5.2x3.1416x5)/4 = 106cc
53mm bore 50mm stroke (5.3x5.3x3.1416x5)/4 = 110cc
Ok I have named the three most common engines and they don't fit the 106 limit with all the oversize KT100 pistons available, your turn now, name some other common engine that would only be 106cc with oversize KT100 pistons in it, may be a 1mm or better yet 2mm OS piston.
Why would you want to run a 100 aircooled when you can run a 100 watercooled?
There are way more oversize steps on a kt100 not just 0.25mm steps like bikes.
The question was do we want 85cc mx engines , not do you want 4t 200s and 10% oversizes
the maths above is all wrong as suzuki stroke is 50.6mm
My neighbours diary says I have boundary issues
I think most of the major 125's and 100 are 50.6mm.
I don't quite go along with unlimited carb 125 air cooled cause they have already shown 30HP on a 24mm carb.
Being air cooled is not enough of a restriction. it just limits their ability to retain peak performance in longer races.
the 24mm carb rule has worked well. So far
I would like to see liquid cooled non comp 125's (Maybe for selfselving reasons) but they would have to be limited to around 30hp somehow.....
Maybe Wobs exhaust restrictor idea could work, on the LC125's with a carb limit to keep them 30hp ish.
The parts issues also need to be sorted before MX85's come in.........
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Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Maybe true and I thought so too, but I got my figure for the 50mm stroke from the official Suzuki GP125 service manual. If you have a better source do tell as I think the 100 is the same, likewise the TF and TS.
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Too true, but like the old aircooled MB100's there are a few TS/TF/GP and a few RG 100cc engines around, or at least the parts for them. And we would like the same options for pistons as the MB boys.
I understand this, but if people are using the KT100 piston then they can go 2mm OS.
True but I am allowed to express my opinion and now that we are opening the Bucket rules Pandoras box lets get it all out there.
A bit off the topic but relating to the 85. I have two videos from when I had the MB100 and then 85.
RM85
And then the MB100 (starts at 1:05)
I actually almost agree,
10% oversizes.
I think that gives enough fair options to everyone.
(I have to say I never really agreed with the over sizes given to the 150cc 4T. Anyone serious will take the hit and bore to maximum oversize anyway. sleeves are cheap).
but I'd be keeping the:
MX engines, limited to 85cc no other restrictions
Non competition derived engine, including the following:
transmission, blablabla.. (same as last 10year)
Exception of Pistons, pipes, blabla...(same as last 10year)
100cc 2t no other restrictions max overbore 110cc to allow for all the common makes of 2T to use the KX100 52mm piston as 107 only allows the Honda MB100 to use it.
125cc 2t 24mm Carb Restriction (10% max oversize). Aircooled
150cc 4 valve 4Ts (10% max oversize)
180cc 2valve 4Ts (10% max oversize). Aircooled
if you want to run watercooled engines (or competition derived engines or components), you have to run the smaller size.
Thermal constraint will level the playing field during a race; and it will make things interesting tactically during longer events...
Last edited by Bert; 24th May 2014 at 20:26. Reason: Edited for make it Clear to Husa
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