The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[husaberg]

Lose the capacity + overbore wording. Simply state the maximum size and don't mention boring as a capacity increase might be due to an increased stroke. Keep it simple.

There may be a few 4T engines that suddenly become eligible as they start bigger than 150cc so don't comply with current rules, though there is an argument that they might not be eligible anyway due to the word competition somewhere in the promotional literature.

This constantly changing the rules and increasing capacity has to end somewhere. F3 anyone?

2V to 210cc seems fair brings in a few old honda based buckets

[speedpro]

210cc would nearly make Richban's bucket legal

[Grumph]

Be careful...If it's 210cc for 2V singles, possibly OK. But Wallace's rarely seen 2V/cylinder CB125 twin is already reputedly making over 20hp.

I'm philosophically opposed to forever going bigger - that's what fucked F3 in the end.

[husaberg]

210cc would nearly make Richban's bucket legal

Be careful...If it's 210cc for 2V singles, possibly OK. But Wallace's rarely seen 2V/cylinder CB125 twin is already reputedly making over 20hp.

I'm philosophically opposed to forever going bigger - that's what fucked F3 in the end.

Pretty sure the CB twins should have 4 in total?
Speedpro or Dave will know what the O'Connor twins made?
I am philosophically opposed to Competition engines in F4 and F5 it was mostly the whole point of most of the people interest the class.
I just see it ending in silly pricks buying KTM85 which are ubber dear and ubber high tech and turning it into a $ contest.
In think what f-ed F# was thats what it turned into.

[Grumph]

There appears to have been more money spent on F3 this year than for some time...Two Kramers plus DC on a Wobbly Aprilia/banshee thing....

[husaberg]

There appears to have been more money spent on F3 this year than for some time...Two Kramers plus DC on a Wobbly Aprilia/banshee thing....

Why invest in a class where a rule change might rule a bike obsolete overnight.
Did DC ride a 600/450/3 last year.

[speedpro]

Speedpro or Dave will know what the O'Connor twins made?

I just see it ending in silly pricks buying KTM85 which are ubber dear and ubber high tech and turning it into a $ contest.

The O'Connor twins were good for under 20hp as far as I know, 150cc, big cam, GSXR ignition, exhaust pipe & standard carbs. I think 17-18hp would be a good guess.

You don't have to be a silly prick to spend uber$. My MB big end pin had to cost about $1K in the end and the Wobbly tune and porting was $lots. Mind you that was spread over quite a few years. Same with the FZR, mega $$$, but currently at about the 21 year mark and still a "work-in-progress".

[speedpro]

That is a reasonable comment about the original intention of bucket racing and competition engines, with or without the "s". Anything competition was specifically excluded. There's been a bit of "competition" sneaking in though. The list of "open" components. Letting in a complete competition engine seems to contradict the original intentions. That in itself is no reason to not allow them. What is my concern is the whole package of amendments and where it may or may not end. If an MX85 is allowed I can see that some pit bike engines could be allowed, and why not. If 2 valve pit bike engines are allowed why not lesser tuned 4 valve engines.

It's just a big can of worms and the less tinkering with the rules the better. On that note maybe the MX85 option should be left alone.

[husaberg]

That is a reasonable comment about the original intention of bucket racing and competition engines, with or without the "s". Anything competition was specifically excluded. There's been a bit of "competition" sneaking in though. The list of "open" components. Letting in a complete competition engine seems to contradict the original intentions. That in itself is no reason to not allow them. What is my concern is the whole package of amendments and where it may or may not end. If an MX85 is allowed I can see that some pit bike engines could be allowed, and why not. If 2 valve pit bike engines are allowed why not lesser tuned 4 valve engines.

It's just a big can of worms and the less tinkering with the rules the better. On that note maybe the MX85 option should be left alone.

Yeah granted the original ones i cant find were no "factory Hot up parts cam and other stuff were mentioned " i think it used a word like Yoshimura etc but stuff like reground cams and mx or race carbs were okay.
True but that money was spend by you to stay within the rules where you could have cheated and put in a CR80 crank for the same stroke.
i think the rules should stay the same but as i am not racing and havent for years its moot.
That said i do have a CR80 engine here and it fits in a NF4 chassis rather nicely. far better than a NSR125 or MB100
But considering my arms connection to the rest of my body is rather tenuous and i have two fractured vertebrae atm it isn't an option for me, but JR is 15 in April and he weighs about 50kg and has far more flexible bones.

[F5 Dave]

That is a reasonable comment about the original intention of bucket racing and competition engines, with or without the "s". Anything competition was specifically excluded. There's been a bit of "competition" sneaking in though. The list of "open" components. Letting in a complete competition engine seems to contradict the original intentions. That in itself is no reason to not allow them. What is my concern is the whole package of amendments and where it may or may not end. If an MX85 is allowed I can see that some pit bike engines could be allowed, and why not. If 2 valve pit bike engines are allowed why not lesser tuned 4 valve engines.

It's just a big can of worms and the less tinkering with the rules the better. On that note maybe the MX85 option should be left alone.

And I would agree don't fix what ain't broken. . .

Except; where are the next engines and or bikes coming from?

10 years ago the answer was not a problem.

I'm not suggesting all the other big bore options.

People can buy a GPR bike if they want to spend some real cash.

[husaberg]

And I would agree don't fix what ain't broken. . .

Except; where are the next engines and or bikes coming from?

10 years ago the answer was not a problem.

I'm not suggesting all the other big bore options.

People can buy a GPR bike if they want to spend some real cash.

Thousands of TF125 sitting arround covered in Cow poo.
Do they need more bikes or just more riders.
years ago before the 150's came along there was no one buying newer bikes every few years they were all pretty much all old bikes even then but still competitive forever.

[Grumph]

Thousands of TF125 sitting arround covered in Cow poo.
Do they need more bikes or just more riders.
years ago before the 150's came along there was no one buying newer bikes every few years they were all pretty much all old bikes even then but still competitive forever.

Well....up to a point. I don't want to harp on it but the big track racing in the SI isn't kind to air cooled 2T's. There's no kart tracks down here likely to be available in the forseeable future either. In fact buckets are an endangered species locally...

[husaberg]

Well....up to a point. I don't want to harp on it but the big track racing in the SI isn't kind to air cooled 2T's. There's no kart tracks down here likely to be available in the forseeable future either. In fact buckets are an endangered species locally...

Gm will still have em if anyone bothered to turn up in fact you could ran a meeting here everyweek if you wanted.
The comment about AC air cooled would also apply to WC 2T unfortunately.
I cant see the MNZ not resisting the urge "to be seen as Green" by allowing ethanol in the very near future. which would solve the AC 2t heating

[F5 Dave]

TF125 are no longer competitive or even close. Cycle parts are not suitable either.

[husaberg]

TF125 are no longer competitive or even close. Cycle parts are not suitable either.

to be fair nor is a 85MX bikes cycleparts suitable.
How many HP is that TF you were playing with compared to a std or mild FXR
Also didn't you ride forgo you own bike to ride Yows TFrg?