The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[mr bucketracer]

Ahh boolshit. That Derbi is a peaky 24-25hp. And a bit more than 80 I think but only a bit.

And comparing it with the Works RSA is just moronic. C'mon, none of us are ever going to get anywhere near that potential are we? I mean really.


The comparison with a 40hp RS125 is a target. Heck the RS125 is a HRC racebike. You're not going to beat that, but if you're real skilled you might get close. By the way most NF4s put on a dyno will muster mid to high 30s only, isn't that right Scott?


The lap record Nat recently set is with the tamer engine, about 21hp. The spread of power is important on some kart tracks & the ability of the rider on a rough track is clearly the key factor here.

yip nx4 all around 35hp , weight is one of the biggists keys in buckets . nat frame been light engine light and him self . with out that its realy not the go

[TZ350]

Ahh boolshit. That Derbi is a peaky 24-25hp. And a bit more than 80 I think but only a bit.

Yes 24ish and the one I saw on the dyno was not at all peaky, it had a good spread of power and looked well suited to kart tracks.

And comparing it with the Works RSA is just moronic. C'mon, none of us are ever going to get anywhere near that potential are we? I mean really.

At one time people were pretty convinced that a 24mm carb would limit the 125's to 20hp at best but then just like pulling a rabbet from a hat some moron went and pulled 30+hp from a restricted 125.

[Yow Ling]

Nothing wrong with change, if they never changed we wouldnt have FXRs in buckets, maybe the 85cc thing is a few years premature as there is no shortage of FXRs or fxr parts.
I cant see the point in crippling them with stock cdis and small carbs and stock pipes, if you let them in they need to be open everything , porting , pipes, cdis , frames and wheels just like all the other bucket classes , except for the aircooled thing but they just about gone. Crippling them will just lead to cheating keep it simple, if they make fxrs Bclass bikes so be it , new shit comes along every day improve the breed.

so 85cc , competition engines allowed
thats it !

[TZ350]

so 85cc , competition engines allowed thats it !

I already have a KX80 engine in the shed so I am keen ...... and there are so many good looking aftermarket cylinders available for Derbes and the like. A credit card and a weeks delivery from Europe, 85cc and 30hp no problem.

[husaberg]

Problem i see they have nice CR gearboxs, they have lovely bearings and rods all designed for racing, all stuff not legal for the other bikes?

[Crasherfromwayback]

The whole frame thing "one or other" is interesting, but I don't think its necessary given the current performance. I like those kind of rules in some classes, 2 valve, FI, water cooling, any 2 of the above sort of thing.

std mx frame will be too restricting for size/geometry & add cost as shocks/forks would be Waaay too soft for a bloater adult. :

Odd you should say that. You see...I managed to beat purpose built grand prix machines at many street circuit races back in the day on a very near stock moto-x bike. One thing I never bothered to modify was the suspension. And yes I know an 80cc moto-x bike's suspension is different to a 500cc moto-x bikes...but so are your tracks vs what I was racing on and the speeds I was/you are doing. Maybe I'm not allowed in this convo as I don't race buckets.

[avgas]

http://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/produ...tart/10-kt100s

[F5 Dave]

Odd you should say that. You see...I managed to beat purpose built grand prix machines at many street circuit races back in the day on a very near stock moto-x bike. One thing I never bothered to modify was the suspension. And yes I know an 80cc moto-x bike's suspension is different to a 500cc moto-x bikes...but so are your tracks vs what I was racing on and the speeds I was/you are doing. Maybe I'm not allowed in this convo as I don't race buckets.

S'more the 80s are designed for 30kg kids

[F5 Dave]

Yes 24ish and the one I saw on the dyno was not at all peaky, it had a good spread of power and looked well suited to kart tracks.



At one time people were pretty convinced that a 24mm carb would limit the 125's to 20hp at best but then just like pulling a rabbet from a hat some moron went and pulled 30+hp from a restricted 125.

But 30hp isn't 54hp is it? It's just not a valid comparison to suggest anything like the RSA is possible
Heck other factories couldn't manage it.

[Ocean1]

Jeez, the convoluted constraints you have to invent just to make everything fair. At least you guys aren't shackled by any need to keep your machines looking like production equipment in order to drive sales while still insisting the race bikes are "cutting edge".

The main knob everyone seems to want to screw with to level the various discrepancies caused by different configurations is capacity. But I've sometimes wondered how you'd regulate a class while leaving capacity completely open.

And what the resulting machinery would look like...

[seymour14]

Jeez, the convoluted constraints you have to invent just to make everything fair. At least you guys aren't shackled by any need to keep your machines looking like production equipment in order to drive sales while still insisting the race bikes are "cutting edge".

The main knob everyone seems to want to screw with to level the various discrepancies caused by different configurations is capacity. But I've sometimes wondered how you'd regulate a class while leaving capacity completely open.

And what the resulting machinery would look like...

For a MotoGP $10millon budget each year, I would probably tidy my bike up for production sale purposes...

[Crasherfromwayback]

S'more the 80s are designed for 30kg kids

Yeah I hear ya and I appreciate that. But it's a cheaper fix surely than diff chassis etc etc no? Isn't bucket racing supposed to be cheap?

[seymour14]

Yeah I hear ya and I appreciate that. But it's a cheaper fix surely than diff chassis etc etc no? Isn't bucket racing supposed to be cheap?

No reason it can't be both, everybody is having fun out there, regardless what Grade or experience they have. There is a sharp end and a tail end, just like in every form of racing.

I like it because it has retained a deep appreciation of the home grown talent in this country, and the chance to try different things in a practical engineering way.

[mr bucketracer]

just remember there is a gp125 class out there

[scott411]

Yeah I hear ya and I appreciate that. But it's a cheaper fix surely than diff chassis etc etc no? Isn't bucket racing supposed to be cheap?

have you not ready the thread where someone is building their own supercharger for a bucket, i think compared to that, a frame change is easy