The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[cotswold]

I will of course never actually complete it of course

Bingo, this is what happens to many 2T builds (mine) as they are not easy and working with older engines is as I found out at some expense is a pain in the arse.
I'm over 1/2 a century and would like to have been riding my 2T f4 bike but have wasted 2 years with my failed GP125 project. With an 85 I could have been out riding the thing with a smile on the dial from the outset and if I wanted a bit more than stock could have a spare motor to play with and still had change.

[kel]

Now where did I leave that kit Derbi 50mm cylinder thats being grafted on to the spare KE bottom end? 32hp anyone

Found it

[Sketchy_Racer]

There is a lot of agreement on the thread but some simple things need to be sorted.
We have a bunch of individuals touting them as an option viable option for non tuners then a group saying they have to be able to be tuned as well.
Which camp are you in?
I will go on the record as saying if they make the 85's legal; (with no restrictions) i will buy kate model KTM85 and biff out my current NSR125 project.
I sincerely believe the parity is on the side of the 85 if there is no restriction on them.
I will of course never actually complete it of course

It bothers me that you would ditch your current project in favor of the 85 if it were to be legal. I guess it's a matter of opinion but I believe that the maximum performance potential would still be with the 100s not the 85s.

Out of curiosity have you ridden a MX 85 in road trim? It really is an eye opener, and I am honestly not exaggerating. In stock form they are pretty terrible in terms of an "ideal" engine. But they have reasonable power are easy to get and get parts for and in stock form would be incredibly reliable.

I am in both camps. Personally I wont tune mine, I've got my supercharger project, but I want to see what people could do with them and see how much they can get out of them. If I got in touch with some of the MX tuners I could probably get an idea but I have a chip in shoulder about claimed HP on dynos so numbers are realistically irrelevant.

[CHOPPA]

I have an engine!

[F5 Dave]

Found it

You got a spare? I'll write "NSR80" on the side of it with a Sharpie, drill some holes in it & bolt it up to the MB.

[Drew]

I have an engine!

I have everything else!

[husaberg]

You got a spare? I'll write "NSR80" on the side of it with a Sharpie, drill some holes in it & bolt it up to the MB.

I am guessing you have not seen the Late KTM85/105 cylinder then, it is basically a production Aprillia none of this bridged port nonsense it has a PV triple port.....
watched a kid lap an open curcuit on one was faster than the 450's were (Dylan Walsh though, freak of nature)

It bothers me that you would ditch your current project in favor of the 85 if it were to be legal. I guess it's a matter of opinion but I believe that the maximum performance potential would still be with the 100s not the 85s.

Out of curiosity have you ridden a MX 85 in road trim? It really is an eye opener, and I am honestly not exaggerating. In stock form they are pretty terrible in terms of an "ideal" engine. But they have reasonable power are easy to get and get parts for and in stock form would be incredibly reliable.

.

I have ridden plenty of mx85's (not as a bucket though funny enough) i have also witnessed just how advanced the newer KTM engine is.I have never riden the newer 85 but have seen it, it is a work of art. The major advantage with the newer ones is actually their drivability. The new/old 50 and 65 are night and day in usability i would not expect the 85 to be any different at all.

[Sketchy_Racer]

I am guessing you have not seen the Late KTM85/105 cylinder then, it is basically a production Aprillia none of this bridged port nonsense it has a PV triple port.....
watched a kid lap an open curcuit on one was faster than the 450's were (Dylan Walsh though, freak of nature)


I have ridden plenty of mx85's (not as a bucket though funny enough) i have also witnessed just how advanced the newer KTM engine is.I have never riden the newer 85 but have seen it, it is a work of art. The major advantage with the newer ones is actually their drivability. The new/old 50 and 65 are night and day in usability i would not expect the 85 to be any different at all.

What year did they change the KTM85 motor? I had one as a dirt bike. It was a 2008, not sure if that was the old generation engine or not though?

[kel]

You got a spare? I'll write "NSR80" on the side of it with a Sharpie

I could arrange that, but she's no 80.
50mm x 50.6mm . Its all a bit square but I think we'll make do. Just hope the transfers havent been brought so far around as to cause short circuiting, but I guess we'll just raise the exhaust port floor if need be. Completion date for this is mid who knows when, but it wouldn't be shelved if MX85's are allowed in. All the previously listed non comp goodies in the KE bottom end plus state of the art 100cc water cooled top end, its a no brainer to who's going to have the advantage. Just need someone decent to ride it

[F5 Dave]

I could arrange that, but she's no 80.
50mm x 50.6mm . Its all a bit square but I think we'll make do. Just hope the transfers havent been brought so far around as to cause short circuiting, but I guess we'll just raise the exhaust port floor if need be. Completion date for this is mid who knows when, but it wouldn't be shelved if MX85's are allowed in. All the previously listed non comp goodies in the KE bottom end plus state of the art 100cc water cooled top end, its a no brainer to who's going to have the advantage. Just need someone decent to ride it

Why would I care about claiming the 80cc bit? Can sell it to me in a special marked box that states that it is a road part and provide running in instructions and a 10,000km waranty.

I'll get to work on the artwork. Kelsco Commuter bike Industries. Please observe local vehicle emissions compliance before registering. TuV certificates available (I'll get those posted on Wiki in a moment).

[husaberg]

What year did they change the KTM85 motor? I had one as a dirt bike. It was a 2008, not sure if that was the old generation engine or not though?

I tried to google it but lost interest, the 50 were def 09 the 65's were about the same year my son is not at the 85's yet so never noticed or took much interest. The 85's race on the big tracks seperate from the mini's here anyway.
If you go back a few pages i added some pics of the latest one but when it came in?
But it sure is pretty..........
Page 7.........

[Yow Ling]

I suppose I could print a million or so "Not for Race Use" labels to legitimise any questionable parts
$50 for a roll of 250

[jasonu]

And at the end of the day, If you don't like it don't get one but let the 2T crowd have some new motors!! It's not going to make anyone's bike redundant and the uptake to 85 engines would be minimal but it is an option!

If the uptake is as you say minimal, and I totally agree with that point then who bother to change (and risk) a very successful reciepe just to allow a new bike here and there. It seams to me the proponents of the 85's are looking for a relatively easy in to the class with decient hp, nice gearboxes and low engine weight without really putting in much if any effort.
If there is really enough interest maybe start out with a separate class for the 85's and see what happens from there.

[Drew]

If the uptake is as you say minimal, and I totally agree with that point then who bother to change (and risk) a very successful reciepe just to allow a new bike here and there. It seams to me the proponents of the 85's are looking for a relatively easy in to the class with decient hp, nice gearboxes and low engine weight without really putting in much if any effort.
If there is really enough interest maybe start out with a separate class for the 85's and see what happens from there.

That's exactly right. In my case at least.

Buy motor, have Sketchy/Malcolm/anyone else who knows their shit tune it for a bit of a fatter curve, and build a decent handling bike around it. I'd even try and utilise the output shaft/swingarm pivot. Not that a bucket is ever likely to overcome suspension compression.

So there would be less effort in getting a running motor...but more work in setting the bike up right. Give and take, same as nearly anything motorcycle related.

[Sketchy_Racer]

If the uptake is as you say minimal, and I totally agree with that point then who bother to change (and risk) a very successful reciepe just to allow a new bike here and there. It seams to me the proponents of the 85's are looking for a relatively easy in to the class with decient hp, nice gearboxes and low engine weight without really putting in much if any effort.
If there is really enough interest maybe start out with a separate class for the 85's and see what happens from there.

Well that may be just what happens here in welly. Because we don't run MNZ here it comes down to the organisers of the event who can run what. I if a half dozen 85s turned up (which I doubt) they would probably just get crossed classed. At the moment I just start way off the back of any points races to make sure I don't get in the middle of them until at least half way through the race. If some of the fast guys were racing I wouldn't make the ground up on them anyway.

They really aren't going to risk the formula for buckets, well the risk is certainly so minimal. I know Kel is going to submit for a rule change as will I. I really want them in, it's my own agenda i'm pushing of course but I do genuinely believe they will only add to the interest in buckets and in no way be detrimental to the class, again just my own view on the matter.