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Thread: The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    .
    As a big part of Buckets has been the very clever development done. So is there any appetite for a development class where things that don't currently fit the current simple Miniature RR rule set could be run with the organizers and official MNZ blessing, for insurance purposes etc etc?

    Thinking of specials like EV and Turbo 125 twins, uni-flows, XR180's and MX85, clever stuff that could be allowed to run. Welcomed for its "Bucket" like innovation and given official residency but not entitled to full citizenship as F4 or F5 in the Bucket community.

    So is there any appetite for a more flexible development class with its own title separate from F4, F5? No points and minimal administrative overhead.

    The rule could be as simple as:- Miniature RR "Development" class, at the organizers discretion and less than 26 kW SAE at the rear wheel.
    .
    The way i see it it comes down to fairness.
    its wrong on one hand to force others to spend and go to lots of engineering to keep to non comp rules to use parts like strike pistons or in your case a NSR cylinder
    Then say but other currently non legal 85mx engines can be used to save money for some other people who don't race.

    like i mentioned earlier rather than a custom crank pin being used to destroke a MB100 they could have used a far cheaper CR80 crank.
    or instead of scouring the earth to find rare MB5 transmissions they could have used a CR80 one.



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  2. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    The way i see it it comes down to fairness.
    Agreed, fairness, and the proposal is entirely different classes F4, F5 and Development. Three entirely separate classifications to chose to get involved in.

    Running in Development, there are only two Development class rules and no prizes, (Rule 1) less than 25kW DIN rear wheel hp and (Rule 2) at the organizers discretion. It follows from rule 2 that if the organizer thinks the Development bike is grossly over powered then they can demand an observed certified dyno report or something before allowing it out again. Pretty simple and everyone is legally covered.

    As always it is the competitors responsibility to present a legal bike. Dyno to hard? then don't look to fast and just get out there and with the blessing of the organizer enjoy your Development class creation.

    Currently organizers take a risk and out of interest allow non F4, F5 class legal buckets on the track. Much better if they could be legitimate and everyone covered by MNZ's legal umbrella.

    Development class:-
    For minimum administrative overhead, prizes/places are optional.
    and
    Rule 1:- less than 25kW DIN rear wheel hp.
    Rule 2:- Entry at the organizers discretion.

    Fair and Simple.


  3. #783
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    .
    Development class is so simple and fair that you could turn up with a sidecar or solo. Under rule 2 the organizer would then slot you into whatever part of the days program that is appropriate.


  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Agreed, fairness, and the proposal is entirely different classes F4, F5 and Development. Three entirely separate classifications to chose from.

    Running in Development, there are only two Development class rules and no prizes, (Rule 1) less than 25kW DIN rear wheel hp and (Rule 2) at the organizers discretion. If the organizer thinks the Development bike is grossly over powered they can demand an observed certified dyno report before allowing it out again. Pretty simple and everyone is legally covered.

    As always it is the competitors responsibility to present a legal bike. Dyno to hard? then don't look to fast and just get out there and with the blessing of the organizer enjoy your Development class creation.

    Currently organizers take a risk and out of interest allow non class legal buckets on the track. Much better if they could be legitimate and everyone covered by MNZ's legal umbrella.

    Development class:-
    For minimum administrative overhead no prizes/places.
    and
    Rule 1:- less than 25kW DIN rear wheel hp.
    Rule 2:- Entry at the organizers discretion.

    Fair and Simple.
    Simplier and more wide open 1502t and 250 4t



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Simplier and more wide open 1502t and 250 4t
    How does EV fit into that? We are looking to the future here.


  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    How does EV fit into that? We are looking to the future here.
    They would be iin the EV geriatric electric scooter class.
    who wants to watch a race where the only mecanical noise is a rattling chain?
    Even George lucas when they made star wars made the star of the shows engine sound based on a P51 mustang




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    They would be iin the EV geriatric electric scooter class.
    As I said, looking to the future here.......


  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Then say but other currently non legal 85mx engines can be used to save money for some other people who don't race.
    What does "people who don't race" have to do with anything?

    Attracting those people is exactly what the sport needs to survive.


    Also as far as running classes go clubs can make up whatever classes they want. There is no reason why a Wellington event can't run mx85's or development etc. It just needs to have suitable supplementary regs outlining the class rules and be approved by mnz at permit time.

    The downside is the investment of a bike to run in such a class that is only run by one club.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

  9. #789
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    And try finding an MB100 to build something from. Outside my garage of course. But those air-cooled CR80s are hens teeth too.

    But I can buy $1200 85s all day long.

    And they ain't that fast.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  10. #790
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    go air cooled mx125 engines , around 1980 , 24mm carb
    i'm over buckets

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bucketracer View Post
    go air cooled mx125 engines , around 1980 , 24mm carb
    Good luck finding any of those that haven't been totally thrashed to death. And the good ones will be in the hands of the popular VMX crew.

  12. #792
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    And too powerful.

    85s would only equal an FXR with carb and pipe.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  13. #793
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    On my old TS100. making all of 19.9hp measured at the back wheel, i had real good races at a meeting at Manfeild. It was either a "2 Wheeler" or "Golden Handlebars". Buckets were put in the "200 dirt bike, road race class". 3 of us ended up dicing for the lead. Stefen Merriman on a CR125 and some guy on a KX125, both watercooled and both the latest model on the day. Stefan won both races and the KX and I had a 2nd each. Surprisingly close over a whole lap. They jumped away at the start and out of every corner but if I drafted I could sneak past at the end of the back straight, probably due to their bit shorter gearing. From that I don't expect even a later MX85 to roll over all the current buckets. Not the point really.

    I like the idea of a development class, for obvious reasons. Plenty of people simply want to go round and round, or is it just me?

  14. #794
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    Here’s an option. I’m currently developing a $2000 KTM200 Duke for the Supersport 150 class at MCI. Started out as a crashed damaged (live plate) bike. Started at just over 20 RWHp. Power commander has it up to 22.8RWHP. Other than a toasted set of super corsa’s And a Aprilia RSV shock transformed the handling to the point it crazy fun to ride.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Its harder to lose weight than gain horsepower.

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha#81 View Post
    KTM200 Duke for the Supersport 150 class
    You and Richban could start your own class

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