The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[jasonu]

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The thing that has me questioning it now is that by all accounts bugger all people would build one
Yes yes yes as I said earlier why change the rules to suit just a couple of people in a class that has one of the highest entry numbers in the country.

The other concept I've heard mentioned lately is to allow 125 MX engines, possibly as an F4.1, in some ways that makes more sense to me but opens another huge can of worms. Sounds like someone is havin a laugh, do they want 250 4T mx'ers as well?

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[RMS eng]

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what a shit fight,make a class for just race motors then they can do what they like.and i rode Dave Ds son 2006 RM85 a few years back in woodhill and if that had 14 HP i would eat dog shit,it had a good 18-20 HP.and if this rule for 85 MX motors is put forward i will get some one to forward a rule to let in honda CRF150R motors as they cost the same as an 85 and already make 20hp

[husaberg]

what a shit fight,make a class for just race motors then they can do what they like.and i rode Dave Ds son 2006 RM85 a few years back in woodhill and if that had 14 HP i would eat dog shit,it had a good 18-20 HP.and if this rule for 85 MX motors is put forward i will get some one to forward a rule to let in honda CRF150R motors as they cost the same as an 85 and already make 20hp

OH there in is another issue for those wanting save buckets it could end up destroying them by "fragmenting them"
yeah throw in some 125MX and 2504t as well why not......

South has the development class to compliment Buckets.

[Drew]

OH there in is another issue for those wanting save buckets it could end up destroying them by "fragmenting them"

South has the development class to compliment Buckets.

This thread has run it's course I think, it's all the same stuff being said.

The simple rules list that Yow Ling (fuck I hate using people's login names) wrote out, was pretty agreeable to nearly everyone. The 85 motors would not be a threat to those people's bikes that are currently in development, but would give others an option for cheap and available parts to make a bike around.

I can't see that fragmenting the fraternity.

[Sketchy_Racer]

what a shit fight,make a class for just race motors then they can do what they like.and i rode Dave Ds son 2006 RM85 a few years back in woodhill and if that had 14 HP i would eat dog shit,it had a good 18-20 HP.and if this rule for 85 MX motors is put forward i will get some one to forward a rule to let in honda CRF150R motors as they cost the same as an 85 and already make 20hp

If it was a stock RM85, it didn't have 20hp. You can't compare what feels fast on the dirt to what is fast on the tarmac. Personally I can't see the problem with the CRF150s, they are just a hopped up CBR150 (the CBR150 might have potential being a twin cam head vs single.... )

So to summarise the MX85 proposal as there are about 50 versions in this thread
F4

MX engines, limited to 85cc no other restrictions

100cc 2t no other restrictions 10% max oversize
125cc 2t carb restriction 10% max over size (air cooled) (considered dangerous in Australia)
150cc 4t no other restrictions 10% max oversize

Looks good to me in this form , plenty of choices, cream always rises to the top

Back to this, it's easy.

As for parts for the non competition engines. I can't see the problem with running MX rods and gearbox's and parts. As long as the cases, crank webs, cylinder are from non competition motors. Making someone run around looking for a legal conrod when a MX one is 1 day away in the mail just seems daft.

[Yow Ling]

OH there in is another issue for those wanting save buckets it could end up destroying them by "fragmenting them"

South has the development class to compliment Buckets.

Actually South has

Superbikes
600,s
Superlite
125's
Clubmans
Posties Classics, bears and Development/Streetstock to compliment Buckets

Plus a special 150 2t 250 4t class at Cams

So we are well spoilt for choices, crossenter to your hearts content , bring 3 or 4 bikes if you tough enough

The Cams Junior Clubmans class has pretty flexible rules
Any 2 stroke up to 150cc, that includes rs125 honda, rs125 Aprillia, Any 2 stroke bucket (cant cross enter at the moment need to bring 2 bikes)
Any 1 or 2 cylinder 4t up to 250cc includes ninjas and cb2oo's and spare buckets. They want people to build hot rods , which hasnt happened yet.

We let any of the above clases run at our bucket meets so we dont actually need MX85s but thay interesting future option, actually we could run them in Cams Junior Clubmans and not have to worry about getting them legaled by the Fathers of bucketracing

[Yow Ling]

If it was a stock RM85, it didn't have 20hp. You can't compare what feels fast on the dirt to what is fast on the tarmac. Personally I can't see the problem with the CRF150s, they are just a hopped up CBR150 (the CBR150 might have potential being a twin cam head vs single.... )



Back to this, it's easy.

As for parts for the non competition engines. I can't see the problem with running MX rods and gearbox's and parts. As long as the cases, crank webs, cylinder are from non competition motors. Making someone run around looking for a legal conrod when a MX one is 1 day away in the mail just seems daft.

I agreeIf i found 2 rods in my shed I couldnt tell which was a mx rod and which wasnt , its like arguing MX sprocket bolt against road one they are the same thing
Just like TF and RM Rods are the same part.

[husaberg]

If it was a stock RM85, it didn't have 20hp. You can't compare what feels fast on the dirt to what is fast on the tarmac. Personally I can't see the problem with the CRF150s, they are just a hopped up CBR150 (the CBR150 might have potential being a twin cam head vs single.... )



Back to this, it's easy.

As for parts for the non competition engines. I can't see the problem with running MX rods and gearbox's and parts. As long as the cases, crank webs, cylinder are from non competition motors. Making someone run around looking for a legal conrod when a MX one is 1 day away in the mail just seems daft.

Glenn the CRF150R and he CBR150 are totally different engines, i doubt if they share a common part other than a bolt washer or o-ring.

I agree If i found 2 rods in my shed I couldnt tell which was a mx rod and which wasnt , its like arguing MX sprocket bolt against road one they are the same thing
Just like TF and RM Rods are the same part.

I agree the interpretation of the rules is daft/silly which is why i bring it up often.....

This thread has run it's course I think, it's all the same stuff being said.

The simple rules list that Yow Ling (fuck I hate using people's login names) wrote out, was pretty agreeable to nearly everyone. The 85 motors would not be a threat to those people's bikes that are currently in development, but would give others an option for cheap and available parts to make a bike around.

I can't see that fragmenting the fraternity.

People want different things its life, people agendas are all different.
I can agree on Std engine spec 85's as long as the parts are cleaned up, but for most, even though they say they want them for a easy not have to be tuned option, But no for others that is not enough...
then others suggest that the 85's would be impossible to tune to a wide power spread, which is utter horseshit.......
People keep banging on about the cheap parts... yet the current classes will not be able to benefit from this as well. Its ludicrous.
People are saying there is few options other than the 85's, Which there is.......

If people ask what are buckets, i tell them they are tuned small commuter bikes, a class where people tune bikes and race them. Its likely the cheapest form of motorbike racing...........It is a class where people use their initiative to build bikes around a framework of modifying commuter/sports bikes..........
beep beep beep beep

[jasonu]

. Personally I can't see the problem with the CRF150s, they are just a hopped up CBR150 (the CBR150 might have potential being a twin cam head vs single.... )
.

Wrong there mate. Totally different motors. If CRF150R motors are allowed into buckets they would be unbeatable in the right hands. Full race motor.
http://www.usgpru.net/forum/viewtopi...hlight=crf150r
http://www.usgpru.net/forum/viewtopi...hlight=crf150r

[F5 Dave]

Attachment 297323 Here is a 1mm OS KT100 piston.


Sure 52 gives 106, but don't these pistons come in 52+somethings out to 2mm OS?

Suzuki TF/TS/GP100 50mm bore 50mm stroke.

50mm bore 50mm stroke (5x5x3.1416x5)/4 = 98.18cc

52mm bore 50mm stroke (5.2x5.2x3.1416x5)/4 = 106cc

53mm bore 50mm stroke (5.3x5.3x3.1416x5)/4 = 110cc


Ok I have named the three most common engines and they don't fit the 106 limit with all the oversize KT100 pistons available, your turn now, . . . .

ok my turn. Sorry been out riding competition based oversize (72mm bore) motorcycle in rather muddy conditions.

anyhoo, if you'd been taking notes you'd see the proposed rule is 107cc. I said 106. Something on porpoise. KT pistons come in;
52.00
52.05
52.1
52.1
52.2
52.3

etc etc

.that's enough to be getting on with.

[koba]

I've struggled to keep up with this thread but I do think it is great.
Richban points out that there are plenty of active racers not reading all this but to be fair the representation is pretty good for a group debate.

I'm loving that fact that we can all thrash out an idea with (mostly) constructive input with many people involved in the class.

Almost everyone contributing to this debate is an active racer and I'm confident all have the sports best interests in mind, whichever side of the fence they are on; that's cool!

Perhaps we should canvas further?
what is the best way to do this? Mention it at events so those who actually turn up get a say?

[Drew]

I've struggled to keep up with this thread but I do think it is great.
Richban points out that there are plenty of active racers not reading all this but to be fair the representation is pretty good for a group debate.

I'm loving that fact that we can all thrash out an idea with (mostly) constructive input with many people involved in the class.

Almost everyone contributing to this debate is an active racer and I'm confident all have the sports best interests in mind, whichever side of the fence they are on; that's cool!

Perhaps we should canvas further?
what is the best way to do this? Mention it at events so those who actually turn up get a say?

That will boil down to campaigning not discussing, in a lot of cases. It might create discussion at later stages amongst those campaigned though.

[koba]

That will boil down to campaigning not discussing, in a lot of cases. It might create discussion at later stages amongst those campaigned though.

Glen has already been campaigning, I'm keen to start wider discussion from that.
Will probably mention something at the next riders briefing.
Acutely aware that not all active racers are seeing this.

[TZ350]

Glen has already been campaigning, I'm keen to start wider discussion from that. Will probably mention something at the next riders briefing. Acutely aware that not all active racers are seeing this.

To complete the picture it might be good to mention that up our way in A grade Nats 80-85cc bike is being pretty dominant.

[koba]

To complete the picture it might be good to mention that up our way in A grade Nats 80-85cc bike is being pretty dominant.

Yeah, the discussion is never going to happen properly at a briefing but I'll just point out that it is going on and provide more details to those who want to chip in.