Cunliffe's constituent Liu?

[Brian d marge]

Buying a home is not exclusively a Kiwi desire. People of all nations want this - Australia, Germany, Britain, Japan...

For complex reasons this is not a realistic choice in some countries such as Europe and Britain so families rent their homes in stable circumstances where even the third generation continues to live in a rented home.

It works. Do not disrespect those who cannot buy.

no disrespect here .... renting is a viable option , in fact if it is done right it can increase the wealth of both parties...say by renting the house from your parents at slightly less than market rates
Stephen

[mada]

Human behavour determines that the smarter, stronger and more socially adept rise to the top.

The less socially adept, weaker and stupid examples sit around bleating about the system.
Your problem is that there will never be a system where bitter incoherent jealous onanists get to the top.

Absolute fail.... were you raised in Nazi Germany or something?

I recall a guy bleating about the system and complaining about poverty, poor housing for the last couple of years. He lost his job over being outspoken about it in 2012.

"There has been speculation that his public comments about poverty and poor housing had annoyed Government funders, but the real reasons for his departure are thought to include his insistence on treating patients who couldn't pay."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10812964

You've probably heard of the guy - he was this years Kiwibank New Zealander of the year.

Your problem is not ignorance, far from it, your comments suggest you not only accept but support people being treated like shit because that's just the "natural order". Good to see some peoples brains are de-volving and going back to the primitive instincts of "only give a fuck about myself" caveman days.

[mashman]

Did I mention boring?
It was mildly funny the first time.

It's still hilarious.

[mashman]

But they created the loan out of nothing against the borrowers assets then foreclosed and those assets become theirs by default ... what have they lost? Nothing!

Then they sell the assets at a morgagee sale and whallah ... they can start the whole business over again with a brand new borrower on the same assets!

Smell Ponsi anyone?

Si Senor...

[Oscar]

But they created the loan out of nothing against the borrowers assets then foreclosed and those assets become theirs by default ... what have they lost? Nothing!

Then they sell the assets at a morgagee sale and whallah ... they can start the whole business over again with a brand new borrower on the same assets!

Smell Ponsi anyone?

Wow, even for this forum, that is dumb.

The assets don't become theirs by default, the asset is sold and the outstanding debt settled and any remaining money given to the owners.
This process costs a fortune and whilst its going on the bank is having to pay interest on the money to its investors and not able to use those funds to for loans where the interest is actually paid.

The really dumb thing is the mention of Mr Ponsi.
Do you even know what a Ponsi Scheme is?

[Oscar]

Absolute fail.... were you raised in Nazi Germany or something?

I recall a guy bleating about the system and complaining about poverty, poor housing for the last couple of years. He lost his job over being outspoken about it in 2012.



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10812964

You've probably heard of the guy - he was this years Kiwibank New Zealander of the year.

Your problem is not ignorance, far from it, your comments suggest you not only accept but support people being treated like shit because that's just the "natural order". Good to see some peoples brains are de-volving and going back to the primitive instincts of "only give a fuck about myself" caveman days.

You don't seem to have taken my advice about reading for comprehension (how's the maths revision going).
The "bitter incoherent jealous onanists" referred to Mashbrain and D'Marge, but feel free to include yourself in that group.
I was describing the losers who do nothing but bleat on the internet about the system - people like youself who make unfounded and stupid comments (like the banks manipulate the property market with foreclosures), not people who actually get out and make a difference.

After you've practiced your sums, you might wanna look up the estimable Mr. Godwin on line...

[Ocean1]

I think that's the point you overlook Ocean. It is easier for people to get loans and get a mortgage nowadays YES and this LED to a small but significant amount of people (I have many in my own family who did it) buying up as many properties as they could - driving up land and house prices left right and centre. This combined with less of helping hand from govt. have pushed owning a HOME beyond the reach for many.

How many times do we have to do this shit?

House prices have DECREASED in real terms over the last generation.

Taxpayers give more people a helping hand than than at any time in NZ's history. 55% of Kiwis recieve more in benefits than they contribute in tax.

And if you bother to look I suspect you'll find that home ownership is INVERSELY related to available subsidies. In fact it's most closely related to gross economic performance, another reason to support those entities that drive that performance, businesses and individuals. Homes have always been beyond the reach of some. Always will be. The way you DON'T fix that is by increasing subsidies, that only works for those who are close. If you want to fix long term entry level housing then remove the parasitic compliance and market dominance issues, that's the real reason small houses are expensive, you don't get to blame high income earners for everything.

These INVESTORS pay no income TAX on that rent nor the CAPITAL GAINS.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/mone...axes-cap-rents

"rental property owners last year collected about $1.5 billion in revenue, of which about $500m went to Inland Revenue in tax."

[Banditbandit]

Sorry but many hunter gatherer societys dont have a medium of exchange and actually are rather happy
The tide changed when we started to grow things

Yes - but Hunter Gatherer societies are not highly organised in that there is not the division of labour and job specialization of other societies ... It's the specialization and division of labour that is important.

I cannot swap 10 minutes of work for that organization over there for a bag of carrots in the supermarket - I need a medium of exchange .. which happens to be, in our case, money ..

Try, ugh, there's no real word that I can think of that describes it... try, trust.

I take your point about the monetary system, I really do, I would have thought, well, did think similar in the not too distant past.

I have to disagree with the system not being responsible. I agree that there will always be people that are striving for something and will do anything to get their way... however, their motive and credentials is the amount of money they have . The evidence is splattered all over the forum... and at work... and in the cafe etc... It's influence is everything to the point where financial collapse will irrevocably change us and may even lead to WW3. NOW, heh, you say the system is not the problem. So why is it when that very same system runs out of money, society "implodes" (it's in the news a lot). That will prove that human behaviour changes accordingly with the system. We are not animals.

It ain't humans that are the problem, they're just doing what they know how to do given the current information available and their immediate environment.

Just my 2c.

The system is a problem of course - capitalism is a massive problem. I did not quite mean that - what I meant was that the system of value exchange is not the problem .. any such system can become a problem - but the problems are created by human behaviour, not by the system of value exchange. Some humans are fine, and some are lazy and will be parasites on any system, and some a greedy and needy and will parasitize the others .. Capitalism's major problem is that it sets up a system where the greedy and power-crazed parasitize the rest rather easily .... but so does what passes for Communism in our current world ..

That's human nature ... And I do not believe that you can change that ... without MAJOR social upheaval.

[Oscar]

These INVESTORS pay no income TAX on that rent nor the CAPITAL GAINS.

May I have the name of your Accountant?
I have rental properties and pay tax on the rental income.


Or maybe it's just some shit that you heard and you uncritically posted it on the interweb coz yer a moron.

[Ocean1]

The system is a problem of course - capitalism is a massive problem.

Some homework for you: How many of the top 20% economic performing countries on earth are NOT capatalist economies?

Tomorrow: proper use of the word "problem".

[Ocean1]

This is a good read: http://www.chranz.co.nz/pdfs/falling...ship-in-nz.pdf

It clearly identifies increased unafordability for entry level home owners, but there's a few non-obvious observations in the conclusion.

One of which correlates the growth in size and type of housing with the trend for lower housing ownership. It suggests a high number of people of an age where historically they'd be buying homes living with older familly members. It also correlates dual income families with a much higher ownership.

So maybe it was obvious after all. Housing is far more affordable with two incomes, and single parent famillies are massively more common than they once were. And those single parent famillies are living with mum and dad, who have bought a larger house to accomodate them. Sound familliar?

[Banditbandit]

Some homework for you: How many of the top 20% economic performing countries on earth are NOT capatalist economies?

Tomorrow: proper use of the word "problem".

Hmmm .. we clearly see things in very different ways .. to me, the exploitation of our current capitalist structures is a problem ... One of those top performing countries is the USA, one of the richjest countries on earth ... where more people live homeless than the population of New Zealand .. that's to me, is a major social problem ..

Economic performance is not the measure of everything about a society ...

[Katman]

One of those top performing countries is the USA, one of the richjest countries on earth ...

Really?

With a debt of 17.5 trillion dollars?

[Oscar]

Hmmm .. we clearly see things in very different ways .. to me, the exploitation of our current capitalist structures is a problem ... One of those top performing countries is the USA, one of the richjest countries on earth ... where more people live homeless than the population of New Zealand .. that's to me, is a major social problem ..

Economic performance is not the measure of everything about a society ...

Why is the number of homeless in the US directly attributable to the fact that it is a capitalist society?
There are plenty of capitalist countries that have extensive social welfare systems. The US attitude toward personal freedoms is more probably the root cause of not only their attitude to welfare, but also their rampant free market philosophy. In other words the capitalist system as practiced in the US is a symptom of societal attitudes, not a cause.

[Oscar]

Really?

With a debt of 17.5 trillion dollars?

Actually, based on Debt to GDP ratio, the US debt is on the low side for OECD economies.
It was 72.5% in 2013, compared to over 200% in Japan and 90% in the UK.