Does GOD approve of your motorcycle riding?

[KATWYN]

It is with great displeasure sometimes to spread the word to a lost and dying world, for many scorn, scoff, and ridicule the messenger- when it's the message they have a problem with.

Sometimes I want to shutup, but I continue to speak because I am commanded to by a much higher authority than man!

And about self-righteousness... I have the same attitude as the Apostle Paul had- I am "the chiefest of sinners."


Zed

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ATHIEST IN A FOXHOLE. (when we face life or death or a tragedy who is the first person we all turn to??? just a thought everyone)

[bluninja]

Just a little note....in this off topic rave on forum there are lots of posts that have nothing to do with motorcycling at all....Perhaps that's why it's called off topic

If you aren't interested in the subject just don't come back for a second read (or third or fourth).

Perhaps the vegan KBers can go and take offence at the hunting and fishing post and rant and swear in there, perhaps the puritans may want to complain at the post of bikini clad women. Perhaps we should censor everyone....and close down the site. Get real !!

To misquote a famous scripture..."If thy PC offend thee, chuck it out"

I think Zed's doing no favours to christianity and his holy cause IMHO, but I respect that he should be able to speak freely in the way he believes.

What I am interested in is whether Zed speeds...and how he squares that with his religous convictions. Especially since he first asked the question.

[marty]

!

Ps. how does your girlfriend feel about your addiction to pornography?


Zed

my better half loves it - we watch it together all the time......

[Coldkiwi]

wow. go away for a weekend and what turns up??

Interesting topic and interesting how far off the original (and highly uninsulting if you read it carefully) topic it went. That says all sorts of things about a lot of us (you make up your own mind because I know a lot of you wouldn't agree with what I think and that really wouldn't be productive)

Perhaps as one of the few posts here related to the original question
yes I'm a commited christian
yes I speed. I know I'm breaking the laws set down by the govt of this country. Does that make me a sinner? Thats a huge question as has been hinted at. Zed, please show me some good scripture (maybe here's not the best place) thats fully relevant and I'll think it through and get back to you.
I'm more of the mindset that I have a responsibility to love others and that means acting in a way that is not going to hurt them and would like to think i ride according to that.

Zed, please be aware that you are on a very hot plate with lots of people watching. If you are going to get judgemental about ANYTHING (peoples riding styles/attitudes), be prepared for some well-deserved comments (you know the scriptures on judging others I'm sure). Perhaps you need to come riding with some people here and show us that you live your life the way you talk about it (I for one, would be greatly inspired because I know 600cc sports bikes actively encourage breaking the speed limit despite me praying for safety and wisdom each time I get on).

I find people respond better to the topic of christian morals and actions much better when they come from a humble person who is really trying to live their life according to Christs work. I fear preaching damnation from the street corner drives more people away from a relationship with God than it draws near. Maybe I'm wrong on that but they sure scare me and I believe them!!

[duckman]

Well done CK - Possibly the best worded escape route for everyone tied up in this topic.

This topic may just be too big for all concerned, perhaps we should let it lie and

Smiles everyone

[Jackrat]

Yes well said CK,I have yet to hear you brag about being a better rider than another while at the same time pushing anything.
You sound very much like the type of Christain I can respect,While Zed comes across as a placard waving loony tune.

[Racey Rider]

I agree with your thoughts CK. As a Christain I have often grapled with this issue of speeding. Did a spell once of not breaking the speed limits at all. Very hard, and as you can imagine,, not sustainable in the long term.
So then did a number of years without a bike, as as soon as I got on one, I knew it meant going faster than 50km/h. But being Christain shouldn't mean we have to give up our passions. Just direct them in suitable areas. (ie. Let's go RACING!)
Being Christain isn't so much about strictly obeying the law, (as the Pharisees did, and Jesus condemned them), But obeying the intent of the law. Saftey.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I am happy for someone to be coming towards me on a safe bit of road at 130km/h. And so I do too. I'm not happy for a alcohol intoxicated person to be coming towards me at 100km/h, So I don't drink and drive. (well, don't drink at all really). That type of thing.
Racey.

[MikeL]

Welcome back, CK. How was the camp??
Very wise words indeed. True humility is a rare virtue these days.
I was reluctant to join the debate even though there is no subject more important. It's just that it's almost impossible to maintain a level of intellectual argument and it quickly degenerates into a pointless slanging match.

FWIW this is my belief:

"Christianity" is more than the church, and more than scripture.
"Religion" is more than Christianity.
"God" is more than religion.

Narrow, sectarian, fundamentalist/literalist interpretations are at best childish, at worst evil for the real human suffering they produce.

If "religion" is used for social control, psychological manipulation, political expediency or any other purpose other than personal spiritual enlightenment it is a form of exploitation because it is always allied to power and used against the weak.

Open-mindedness, doubt, tolerance and wonder are in the long run more helpful than blind faith.


"There are no atheists in fox-holes". Understandable but scarcely a sound basis for belief. When I was a student I would have described myself as an atheist, determinist, Darwinist. But of course in those days I knew everything. Now I know nothing, but understand more.

[wkid_one]

Well put CK......I think most people object to religious beliefs being thrust upon them - but few deny the moralistic behaviour it espouses however.

Again I agree with JR

[KATWYN]

Now I know nothing, but understand more.

Thats good. Thats pretty humble yet very wise!

[Big Dog]

Zed, Just a few Random thoughts.

If what you say is true then the Nazi's had nothing to fear when they were brought to judgement as they were just following the law of the land.

Who here can say they have heard the word of god directly from him?

What is the point to free will?

The christians of old were martyred not for their beliefs but the fact that they kept making noises about it in a time and place where they were a minority.

Pride cometh before a fall, before you preach to others make sure you have all your ducks in a row. If you are going to make prideful statements in writing be prepared to back them up. To paraphrase from Top Gun, Don't write cheques with your mouth your body can't cash. There is always someone faster, smarter, stronger, better educated or just plain luckier.

Be careful where you take your dogma. Or a budhist may run it over with his Karma.


Everyone, A few More random thoughts.

Have you ever posted something you knew some others might get their hackles up about?

Have you ever posted something you had no idea others might get their hackles up about?


If this has to be a debate perhaps it should be a debate based on opinion / fact as opposed to a charachter assasination thread. I for one welcome the free flow of information / conversation. This site will become very boring very fast if everyone suddenly only dicusses that which everybody already agrees.

Final less random thought. Myself and a couple of others have tried to join in the spirit of the original thread, a theological discussion about how our hobby fits in with our beliefs, yet it is only the noob ho has been harassed for it. Could it be that those who are flaming him are a) really pissed about something else he posted and being a bit one eyed. b) picking on the noob because they don't know him as well as the others. C) fearful of how their own god realy feels and taking it out on the person who brought it up. d) just trying to be controversial on an easy target.

I look forward to future logical or theological posts and hope that the rest will just leave well enough alone.

[wkid_one]

Have you ever posted something you knew some others might get their hackles up about?

Have you ever posted something you had no idea others might get their hackles up about?

Not me sir - never ever ever have I done that

I agree - with CK 100% in his post. It is much easier to believe someones actions, than their words.......

Religion, in modern society is always going to be a hot topic regardless of who brings it up.

However, from my understanding - the very nature of Zeds posts is counter-religious, which is more what I was trying to achieve.

I notice how CK didn't get drawn in to a pissing contest - yet Zed did easily....

There is an interesting site about modernising the 10 Commandments - it is well worth a read http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c2.htm.

One must remember the religion - whilst written in the bible - was a construct of eons ago - it must to viewed and acted upon in the modern world. Zed appears to have lost sight of this IMHO.

As I have said in previous posts - I have nothing against those who a devoutly religious (of any order) - yet Zed is vehement in his apparent depising of those who don't believe? Isn't one of the ten commandments to seek knowledge? Does this not mean to expand our mind to alternate possibilities, ways of thought and even open our mind to the fact that what we believe may be incorrect?

As I have also said - I will not denounce there isn't a higher being - it is just that with the knowledge I have today....I haven't had proof their is?

And before you ask - I did do debating, so this all comes naturally and enjoy it....

MOdern theologists agree that MOST Christians break two of the commandments routinely: the possession of images and failure to observe the Sabbath. So does this mean it is okay to selectively ignore commandments?

IMHO it appears that for many 'true believers' following their deity is an excuse to be blinkered to all other open possibilities the world may offer.

Try this on for size:
Religious liberals might point out that the sets of commandments were drafted some 3 millennia ago for a pre-scientific, religiously intolerant society in which women were considered property, slavery was widespread, there were numerous sins and crimes punished by the death penalty, and polygamy was common. Since the Ten Commandments were written, western culture has changed in dozens of ways. We have, for example:

	become multi-cultural, multi-racial and multi-faith.
	abolished slavery.
	given women the vote.
	approached equality of opportunity for men and women (except in the Armed Forces and religious spheres).
	replaced polygamy with monogamy or serial monogamy.
	essentially eliminated the death penalty in all western countries other than the U.S.
	banned the practice of burning people alive.
	begun to accept people with a minority sexual orientation as deserving of full human rights.
	increased the importance of individual human rights.

God makes a point about ONLY WORSHIPPING HIM - and thereby makes all other religions exiled from worship - how is it then that aome of the most widely followed religions like Budhism and Hinduism are incorrect??? Or are you going to tell 9bil Chinese - 'sorry guys, your religion is incorrect, follow our god"?

Just food for thought no more no less. I come to this site to provoke conversation - nothing else.....this post isn't meant to offend anyone - just get people thinking

[Big Dog]

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God makes a point about ONLY WORSHIPPING HIM - and thereby makes all other religions exiled from worship - how is it then that aome of the most widely followed religions like Budhism and Hinduism are incorrect??? Or are you going to tell 9bil Chinese - 'sorry guys, your religion is incorrect, follow our god"?

Just food for thought no more no less. I come to this site to provoke conversation - nothing else.....this post isn't meant to offend anyone - just get people thinking

God no! Wikid is agreeing with me as I said earlier the fundamentals of all religions are the same.

[Big Dog]

My contention is that too many of us "Christians" give in to the temptation to speed ridiculously and ride dangerously, therefore breaking the law of the land and ultimately the law of God.

Oh I neglected to point out earlier god clearly approves of my speeding and disapproves of the excessive taxation by our government because......On several of my bikes now including the one I now ride I have been travelling along a license shredding speeds when my bike inexplicably slowed... passed a camera or police car.... and sped back up without the slightest alteration in my controls. Curiously enough this only happens when The Man is about.

God also prefers that I ride a motorbike.... Because I have had three tickets in 15 years all for speeding (60 in a 50 zone) all in cars

If this is not clear evidence that god prefers I ride.. I have no understanding of the universe at all.

[wkid_one]

You want evidence that God wants us to ride - he wouldn't have provided us with the insight to place the internal combustion engine in a bicycle in the first place if it wasn't part of his bigger plan.