2000 more teachers

[Banditbandit]

Whats in lightning? Or light bulbs? Or a warm element on the stove?

They are easier to spot than you think. Just the same as air is. You just need the right medium.

Oh .. OK .. show me pictures of a few of them then.

Lightning - we see the light, not the electrons. Same with light bulbs. WE see the glow on the stove or feel the heat - we do not see electrons.

Yes! The parents are generally your customers so if you failed to fail the student when "required" you would be failing your custmers then!

I have the luxury of teaching at tertiary level - no parents involved.

[Banditbandit]

Your industry is blinded by academic dogma.

Some parts of it may well be, this part typing here is not. And what sort of dogma are you blinded by?

Lookie here:

In December 2011, the MoE’s Briefing to the Incoming Minister (Ministry of
Education, 2011) stated that:
… the gap between our high performing and low performing students remains one of
the widest in the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).
These low performing students are likely to be Māori or Pasifika and/or from low
socio-economic communities. Disparities in education appear early and persist
throughout learning. (p. 8)
Based on these findings the Briefing concluded that, “The greatest challenge facing the
schooling sector is producing equitable outcomes for students”

http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/fms/M...ategy-2013.pdf

Absolutely. But I fail to see how that means teachers are doing a poor job.

Equity of outcomes for students. If you believe that goal is achievable by throwing extra resources at low performing kids then you can't call yourself any sort of education professional.

I do not necessarily believe that throwing resources at the problem will lead to a fix ... it depends where the actual issue lies. Sometimes it lies in the home, sometimes it lies in social factors and sometimes it lies with the teachers. Your blanket statements and quotes do not place all the problems with the teachers - in fact they do not place the problem anywhere in detail.

All you teach them is that failure results in extra resources.

Teach who? The students or the teachers? The students don't know about resourcing issues. You are conflating two ideas into one.

When failure has some sort of consequence then you'll improve your industry performance. And not until.

Failure by teachers does have consequences. The problem is that not all failure by students is failure by teachers.

[Ocean1]

Failure by teachers does have consequences. The problem is that not all failure by students is failure by teachers.

You're not listening. The failure is ALWAYS that of the student.

The reasons for that failure are manifold, but it's the student's choice whether to fail no matter what the reasons.

And if you think students don't learn that failing ain't such a big deal from the application of extra resources then you're a fool.

[Banditbandit]

You're not listening.

You're not explaining yourself clearly then.

The failure is ALWAYS that of the student.

Hmm .. I don't get that POV from your posts - you are not explaining yourself clearly.

The reasons for that failure are manifold, but it's the student's choice whether to fail no matter what the reasons.

Hmm interesting position ... I have had students who are not capable of passing. (I said it was immoral to enrol them, and got told the best thing I could do was fail them as quickly as possible and stop wasting their money.) The students simply did not have the skills to pass a degree programme. Cal it intelligence if you will - there are students with impairments - so failing is not their choice.

And if you think students don't learn that failing ain't such a big deal from the application of extra resources then you're a fool.

I fail to see how an eight-year-old child, who has no idea about school resourcing, learns that ..

[Swoop]

Our country is way to easy to fix. Simply add a form of the PILL into all water supplies so NO ONE can get pregnant until they have passed a basic IQ test

A good start but sadly does not take into account those on tank-water in normally undeveloped areas of the country, (Far North, Coromandel, South Island, etc) so they will remain as lower-decile breeders.

You're not listening. The failure is ALWAYS that of the student.

The reasons for that failure are manifold, but it's the student's choice whether to fail no matter what the reasons.

And if you think students don't learn that failing ain't such a big deal from the application of extra resources then you're a fool.

A recent tertiary Academic Meeting was following the line of "if the student fails, the curriculum wasn't appropriate to their needs" which leads onto setting up a flexible curriculum and you still get a nice piece of paper to hang on the wall at the end. No matter how useless the student may be and two students in the same group might do totally different things.

[Shaun Harris]

[QUOTE=Swoop;1130744314]A good start but sadly does not take into account those on tank-water in normally undeveloped areas of the country, (Far North, Coromandel, South Island, etc) so they will remain as lower-decile breeders.


That's fine, you never see the hill billies anyway- well apart from me

[Ocean1]

A recent tertiary Academic Meeting was following the line of "if the student fails, the curriculum wasn't appropriate to their needs" which leads onto setting up a flexible curriculum and you still get a nice piece of paper to hang on the wall at the end. No matter how useless the student may be and two students in the same group might do totally different things.

Which is why most terciary qualifications dated after the turn of the century are worth precicely the cost of the ink used to create them.

To the recipients. Nobody else would be stupid enough to actually pay a basic MBA fuck all.

[Ocean1]

You're not explaining yourself clearly then.

I never claimed to be a teacher.

Hmm interesting position ... I have had students who are not capable of passing. (I said it was immoral to enrol them, and got told the best thing I could do was fail them as quickly as possible and stop wasting their money.) The students simply did not have the skills to pass a degree programme. Cal it intelligence if you will - there are students with impairments - so failing is not their choice.

It's not a position, it's a fact. A student's task is to learn, if the information is available and yet they don't succeed in learning it then who the the fuck else can be said to have failed to learn? Citing inteligence or any other criteria doesn't change the fact.

And that's irrespective of the teacher involved, the teacher has only failed if he doesn't deliver the information required.

I fail to see how an eight-year-old child, who has no idea about school resourcing, learns that ..

That's apparent. And exactly the problem in question.

[Banditbandit]

I never claimed to be a teacher.

It's not a position, it's a fact. A student's task is to learn, if the information is available and yet they don't succeed in learning it then who the the fuck else can be said to have failed to learn? Citing inteligence or any other criteria doesn't change the fact.

OK .. I get that ..

And that's irrespective of the teacher involved, the teacher has only failed if he doesn't deliver the information required.

Sorry - while I would like to agree with you ... there are some rat shit teachers out there who I would say have failed .. they can be so fucking boring, off-putting and generally useless. I would blame them ..

But what you are saying seems to undermine your position that teachers be held responsible ... If they deliver the information how can they be held responsible under your concepts?

Under mine, they could be held responsible for delivering the curriculum, but in such a bad manner that the students don't learn (and yes, I have seen teachers in classrooms that bad! And yes, I managed to get rid of them)

That's apparent. And exactly the problem in question.

I still don't follow your reasoning here tho'

[oldrider]

I have the luxury of teaching at tertiary level - no parents involved.

Well, I guess your students definately are your primary customers then ... you must do what you must do ... the rest is up to them how they value your contribution!

. or . just like any other contractoral agreement to supply goods or services.

[BuzzardNZ]

My funniest class room moment. I was sent to catholic school by the basin reserve in wellington by social welfare years back, and one day in religious study Father Toomey was explain the difference between white lies and full on lies, so I asked him


" Father, do you masturbate" By fek you should have seen him turn red and scream at me hahahahahahaha Poor bugger, it only cost me 6 of the best, and was well worth the short term pain.

I didn't know social welfare sent kids to a posh school like that. You're talking about Saint Marks right?

[Brian d marge]

Dave Allen on being cheap and lying: http://youtu.be/8e_pIHiFPd4

[neels]

I fail to see how an eight-year-old child, who has no idea about school resourcing, learns that ..

They learn pretty bloody quick if they're getting something over and above what the other kids are getting, the debatable point is if all those extra resources, technology, teacher aides etc etc etc actually makes any material difference to the end result.

Unfortunately it's become a bit un PC to say that some kids are less clever than others, just like adults out there in the real world, and measuring performance against standards is a bit of a no-no.

[mashman]

I still don't follow your reasoning here tho'

He had a $multi-billion empire by the time he was eight.

[Brian d marge]

He had a $multi-billion empire by the time he was eight.

Not if you elect me as prime minister he wouldnt

Greedy basket