2000 more teachers

[bogan]

.. yeah, I'd have to put up my hand for that .. sorry, but it goes with being an academic ... (fuck me, you should see some of the pretentious twats I work with)

Yeh I know that association all too well

The pretentious twat is however slightly preferable to the attitude that spelling and grammar aren’t important.
Basically, making excuses for a failing in either skill makes you look stupid.
But not as stupid as actually failing in either discipline.

You’re essentially telling the world that you are too stupid to load a spell check, and you don’t care that your message may not be understood.

This is not a dig at you by the way, and not that related to your comment, I'm just tired of looking at some of the more illiterate posts here and this seemed like a good thread to vent in...

No unwanted red squigglies under my mess Which is 100% cos I use a spellcheck, as I got a new keyboard, and despite the letters which I just press lighting up, the layout is still different enough to throw me off.

The grammar could probably use a tuneup though, and I do agree with your sentiments.

[Winston001]

No it shows the electron's path; it is the electron itself in multiple positions. Like those time-lapse photos of brake lights; photo is still of brake lights.

Nice explanation although I'm inclined to think Bandit is correct. Have to read a bit more.

Electrons are tricky sods.

[Winston001]

Time for a bit of a reality check here, the electron is smaller than the wavelength of visible light which means we wouldn't be able to see them anyway.

How the hell did we get from 2000 new teachers to discussing electrons??

Fun tho.

Anyway good point but Bogan's link gives the answer - using smaller forces allows us to observe deeper into the atomic world. Electron microscopes. However this new technology which uses atomic forces is a whole leap ahead.

While we are wildly off-topic its interesting to consider that we cannot see gravity but can measure it.

There is a project a few decades out to build a gravity detector in space. It would consist of two arms at 90 degrees, both arms 2km long. Gravity waves going back to the Big Bang should be detectable with micro differences in each arm.

At present we can see back to about 300,000 years after the Big Bang but a gravity scope would allow us to see earlier.

[avgas]

Time for a bit of a reality check here, the electron is smaller than the wavelength of visible light which means we wouldn't be able to see them anyway.

It's actually worse than that. An Electron doesn't exist as other things do. It is a point charge with "something" only. But that doesn't mean you can't see it. It means that you can see its effect.
You can't visualize emotions - does that mean you can't see when someone is angry? happy? sad?
Can you see pain in something without seeing a persons face or hearing them?

Science is seeing what doesn't exist to the human eye. If you can't see - you should teach (or preach) science to kids. Otherwise what will they learn from you that they can't learn from a book?

[avgas]

So back to my point .. If there's a leak in your electrical system on the bike, there's no pool of electrons under the engine ... you can't see them running out of the wires ... you can't see an electron stain on the frame ..

Define a leak? Has the bike heated to a point where an exposes electrons? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_emission
Are they being emitted via some radioactive mutation?
We they inducted or statically transferred?

Or have they simply found an alternate circuit?

You can see all of these if you know what to look for....Do you know what to look for?

[avgas]

That means 50% of the students will (and should) fail it.

I think you have this wrong. Don't you mean a score of 50% or lower, the student should fail.
Hate to think that you believe half of NZ is a lower class of society, and should never be otherwise.

If you do think that way - heads or tails? (and even that is giving you better odds than you are giving the kids - because if the coin lands on the edge I will do a reflip).

[mansell]

It's actually worse than that. An Electron doesn't exist as other things do. It is a point charge with "something" only. But that doesn't mean you can't see it. It means that you can see its effect.
You can't visualize emotions - does that mean you can't see when someone is angry? happy? sad?
Can you see pain in something without seeing a persons face or hearing them?

Science is seeing what doesn't exist to the human eye. If you can't see - you should teach (or preach) science to kids. Otherwise what will they learn from you that they can't learn from a book?

Actually they do exist they have mass and if you break apart a Neutron you get a Proton and an Electron, where the confusion lies in in a combination of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and the Shrodinger Wave Equation, which means we don't know where they are but we can plot a probability grid which gives shape to the Orbitals. SWhit heavy Chemistry for a Saturday morning I think I'll watch the kids' cartoons instead

[Winston001]

Actually they do exist they have mass and if you break apart a Neutron you get a Proton and an Electron, where the confusion lies in in a combination of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and the Shrodinger Wave Equation, which means we don't know where they are but we can plot a probability grid which gives shape to the Orbitals.

I can sort of grasp an electron in a probability cloud instead of a fixed place, but it also functions as a wave and that is downright queer.

Plus where does its load of photons come from? Can an electron ever lose all its photons? What about when it collides with a neutron or a tau particle? Maybe such collisions cannot occur?

[The Pastor]

I think you have this wrong. Don't you mean a score of 50% or lower, the student should fail.
Hate to think that you believe half of NZ is a lower class of society, and should never be otherwise.

If you do think that way - heads or tails? (and even that is giving you better odds than you are giving the kids - because if the coin lands on the edge I will do a reflip).

Its a national standard, it means they have a line where you are above or below.

(very simply)They determine the line by averaging out where the ideal student should be (add all the students divide by number of students). This means, by definiaiton that 50% of the population will be below the national standard and 50% will be above.

Now the national standard could be set at a pass rate of 80%, so 50% of the students will be below the 80% pass mark, yet even tho they may have more than a 50% pass rate (50-79% test result) half of the students have failed.

National standards are hard to understand. I think ive only made it worse!

[avgas]

Actually they do exist they have mass and if you break apart a Neutron you get a Proton and an Electron, where the confusion lies in in a combination of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and the Shrodinger Wave Equation, which means we don't know where they are but we can plot a probability grid which gives shape to the Orbitals. SWhit heavy Chemistry for a Saturday morning I think I'll watch the kids' cartoons instead

Which brings back to the original question - what is light if not a way to see something?
Keep in mind that changing electron orbits allows us to see different colours of light.

[avgas]

Its a national standard, it means they have a line where you are above or below.

(very simply)They determine the line by averaging out where the ideal student should be (add all the students divide by number of students). This means, by definiaiton that 50% of the population will be below the national standard and 50% will be above.

Now the national standard could be set at a pass rate of 80%, so 50% of the students will be below the 80% pass mark, yet even tho they may have more than a 50% pass rate (50-79% test result) half of the students have failed.

National standards are hard to understand. I think ive only made it worse!

Yes I hope you have.
Otherwise 50% of NZ is set to fail.

Many moons ago when I got to trial the national unit standards - everyone could pass (or fail). This was what was due to replace the school cert etc.

I hope they haven't turned it into a horrible, above the medium, below the medium scenario. If they have - set up the caste' system now, and lets just dictate how much everyone gets paid according to their parents income. We can make India seem like a walk in the park.

This is starting to sound like a bad Dr Seuss book.

[The Pastor]

Otherwise 50% of NZ is set to fail.

yeah that's the problem with national standards.

[Banditbandit]

Define a leak? Has the bike heated to a point where an exposes electrons? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_emission
Are they being emitted via some radioactive mutation?
We they inducted or statically transferred?

Or have they simply found an alternate circuit?

You can see all of these if you know what to look for....Do you know what to look for?

Fuck me .. it was a half-arsed joke (I hate chasing electrons because you can't see the little fuckers ... ) Too many people have taken it seriously ..

[bogan]

Fuck me .. it was a half-arsed joke (I hate chasing electrons because you can't see the little fuckers ... ) Too many people have taken it seriously ..

You mean like this plonker?

Oh .. OK .. show me pictures of a few of them then.
Lightning - we see the light, not the electrons. Same with light bulbs. WE see the glow on the stove or feel the heat - we do not see electrons.

[Banditbandit]

You mean like this plonker?

Yeah probably ... jokes never work when people argue about them .. losses the "funny" part ..