Elections are coming up. What are we thinking?

[Brian d marge]

As for students buggering of overseas.

When the funding model changes and the cost were front loaded onto the user i,e the USER pays , then the now in-debt user has 2 options

Dont pay it

pay it

Remember when the loan scheme started there was interest on the loan , your debt got bigger each year if you didn't pay ....

So most right thinking people went where the work was ......... Not in NZ

ooohhh I didnt see that happening , the IMF told us it would be all ok .......

Stephen

[HenryDorsetCase]

Now just stop this so called intelligent thinking Stephen, unless you paid for it yourself of course. I only managed one term in my high school years of education, guess my gramahr and spelling gives that away though. I was to busy working to get girl students drunk so I could route them

does "route" in this context mean "give directions"?

[mada]

At the exspense of what then? junior school? Hospital care? Roading? and please do not be rash and suggest less and lower paid MP people! The past is the past dude stop living in it and move on

We are a small market when it comes to health, we cannot compete with foreign wages like UK, AUS, Canada. Why would students have any loyalty to staying here if they pay the same amount in fees as students in those countries and then end up with a job paying half as much?

The simple answer to solve that problem: make it free and then pay them a shit load less than the present and bond them. Anyone who buggers off overseas would incur the full debt and interest.

The savings for the health system would be huge.

[HenryDorsetCase]

We are a small market when it comes to health, we cannot compete with foreign wages like UK, AUS, Canada. Why would students have any loyalty to staying here if they pay the same amount in fees as students in those countries and then end up with a job paying half as much?

The simple answer to solve that problem: make it free and then pay them a shit load less than the present and bond them. Anyone who buggers off overseas would incur the full debt and interest.

The savings for the health system would be huge.

I'd like to see the numbers on that because (OTOH) the number of actual doctors in the system is not that great. All medical specialists I know or know of (not a great many admittedly) have worked or trained overseas. Often because they have to to pursue their desired specialty. ALL of them could make more coin elsewhere but choose to live here generally because they can make decent coin but perceive NZ as a good place to live for child rearing or other lifestyle reasons. But think of all the other high paid people in the health sector. In particular the bureaucrats that administer a bizzarely complex system. My personal view is that they current system is untenable and proven unworkable but its such a politcal hot potato that they just tinker round the edges with it. Meanwhile people like (say) nurses get shafted.

[Brian d marge]

does "route" in this context mean "give directions"?

in this case yes , the route from the sofa to the bedroom

Stephen

or in my case from the front seat to the back seat

[mada]

I'd like to see the numbers on that because (OTOH) the number of actual doctors in the system is not that great. All medical specialists I know or know of (not a great many admittedly) have worked or trained overseas. Often because they have to to pursue their desired specialty. ALL of them could make more coin elsewhere but choose to live here generally because they can make decent coin but perceive NZ as a good place to live for child rearing or other lifestyle reasons. But think of all the other high paid people in the health sector. In particular the bureaucrats that administer a bizzarely complex system. My personal view is that they current system is untenable and proven unworkable but its such a politcal hot potato that they just tinker round the edges with it. Meanwhile people like (say) nurses get shafted.

Agree. Some do come back for the lifestyle. But many don't. Nurses certainly get the roughest end of the stick when it comes to working conditions in NZ hospitals - and now there is an "over supply" due to govt. telling everyone for years go into it there will be a job (while flooding the market with migrants from India, Philippines etc).

Article with some numbers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/heal...uates-overseas

Bare in mind that's four years old, so the costs are much higher than $75,000 now.

Every single part of the public service, not just health is untenable. There are extremely high "average" wages, but these are due to a shit load of top heavy high earning Execs and managers of all sorts that do sweet f all. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

Things are even better with National - they bought in a rule recently that after 7 years of study you no longer qualify for a student loan. To supposedly target "bum students".

Approx 25% of medical students are postgraduates (so a good 50 - 60 medical students each year x 5 years = 250 - 300+ students affected). These students are generally more mature and have better life experience than their counterparts, more likely to work in Rural Health (that has massive shortages) and as GP's (again shortages). But in their 4th - 5th years they can no longer get a student loan. The minister Joyce claims that they should be able to scrimp one off the banks.... yeh right, like any bank is going to lend to a person on the assumption that they "may" pass. So in the end the govt. is going to have a shit load of medical students who may not finish their studies - putting to waste the millions of dollars they have pumped into them.

[mashman]

So basically you want someone else to pay.

Nope. I want no one to pay, I want everyone to be educated to the highest degree that they choose to be educated to. Pretty sure I've made that clear. But to answer what you probably mean, if business wants "educated" employees, then they should fuckin well pay for it. They won't, because A) they're libertarianesque tight bastards that see the responsibility of education as the responsibility of the individual, yet moan and bitch about the standard of the candidates, Bannanna: they don't have the money, Irony) they blame the individual for everything, yet will pay as little as corporately possible towards the coffers that subsidise the education system that produces their future employees and many many more stupid reasons that all basically come down to money. Fuck the education if it can't be afforded be the mantra with a side helping of someone else i.e. the individuals without money, should pay for it. I lol.

[yokel]

Nope. I want no one to pay, I want everyone to be educated to the highest degree that they choose to be educated to. Pretty sure I've made that clear. But to answer what you probably mean, if business wants "educated" employees, then they should fuckin well pay for it. They won't, because A) they're libertarianesque tight bastards that see the responsibility of education as the responsibility of the individual, yet moan and bitch about the standard of the candidates, Bannanna: they don't have the money, Irony) they blame the individual for everything, yet will pay as little as corporately possible towards the coffers that subsidise the education system that produces their future employees and many many more stupid reasons that all basically come down to money. Fuck the education if it can't be afforded be the mantra with a side helping of someone else i.e. the individuals without money, should pay for it. I lol.

you'd think with all the automation we gots theses days that we should only have to work 20 hours a week tops! haha
we are getting fucking ripped off somewhere along the lines

for me the fuck up started with woman being let out of the house and in to the labour market, over supply of labour equals less pay.
we are now paying the price for that.

I still remember the TV adds when I was a kid about getting woman into the work force.

[Oscar]

Nope. I want no one to pay, I want everyone to be educated to the highest degree that they choose to be educated to. Pretty sure I've made that clear. But to answer what you probably mean, if business wants "educated" employees, then they should fuckin well pay for it. They won't, because A) they're libertarianesque tight bastards that see the responsibility of education as the responsibility of the individual, yet moan and bitch about the standard of the candidates, Bannanna: they don't have the money, Irony) they blame the individual for everything, yet will pay as little as corporately possible towards the coffers that subsidise the education system that produces their future employees and many many more stupid reasons that all basically come down to money. Fuck the education if it can't be afforded be the mantra with a side helping of someone else i.e. the individuals without money, should pay for it. I lol.

This is the single dumbest thing you have ever posted (and that is saying a lot).
So if the employer pays, no one pays?
You don't think that the company in question might build that into their overheads?
So the buying public pay more?

What about the State?
The Health System should pay for Doctors and the Justice System pay for Judges?
Where does that money come from?
Let me guess - taxes. but you said no one pays.

Social Workers? Do the benificaries pay?

If my employer pays for my education and I wanna leave, what happens?
My new employer pays my old employer?

[Oscar]

Well my reading skills and comprehension seems to leagues above yours , You seem to be unable ( or cant understand ) a simple point or question.

Ill try again,

Due to the change in the funding model of the fourth national government ( Dearest Ruth). Tertiary fees went up considerably,

So..... IF you were in tertiary education BEFORE the cuts of the fourth national government YOU had CHEAPER fees and were therefore in a better position to pay

So even IF you did pay for your fees by the sweat of your brow they were considerably cheaper ( doctorin, up from 1000 to 10 000..... teeth fixing ...up to 23 000)

So my dearest Oscar ,,,, either A. Put up ....or B, Shut up

Stephen

Put up what, you numpty?
Just for arguments sake, it was before St. Ruth.
What fucking difference does it make?
As I recall you were responding to a post I made about political leanings as a kid.
What has that got to do with what I paid for my education?

Do you ever have a fucking point?

[yokel]

This is the single dumbest thing you have ever posted (and that is saying a lot).
So if the employer pays, no one pays?
You don't think that the company in question might build that into their overheads?
So the buying public pay more?

What about the State?
The Health System should pay for Doctors and the Justice System pay for Judges?
Where does that money come from?
Let me guess - taxes. but you said no one pays.

Social Workers? Do the benificaries pay?

If my employer pays for my education and I wanna leave, what happens?
My new employer pays my old employer?

It doesnt matter who pays, the whole system is fucked now.

you need to come to terms with the fact that you were played for a fool.

[Oscar]

It doesnt matter who pays, the whole system is fucked now.

you need to come to terms with the fact that you were played for a fool.

I have no debt and nine motorcycles.
The only time I was foolish was the Dnepr purchase.

[Shaun Harris]

funny how this thread about intelligence ( Kind of) has turned into I can swear more than you can FUKIN thread

[yokel]

I have no debt and nine motorcycles.
The only time I was foolish was the Dnepr purchase.

so you got 9 motorcycles and no debit and you want someone to pay for your education? are you high?

fooled only time one?? yeah right

[Oscar]

so you got 9 motorcycles and no debit and you want someone to pay for your education? are you high?

fooled only time one?? yeah right

I paid for my education long ago.