Elections are coming up. What are we thinking?

[Hinny]

Do you really think that any change will bring any "real" difference! ... They, with there lack of familiarity in power will turn to the government departments for help!

All we will get is more of the same only more heavily involving rampant civil servants FFS! .... Better another term of these pratts IMHO!

If we take notice of history the realisation that differing political affiliations do in fact lead to radically different outcomes.
The looting of this countries assets and the future denigration of our independence are actions that need to be resisted.
Our Nationalistic pride has been subverted and replaced by a jingoistic belief that being a part of the great US hegemony is good for NZ and we should just roll over and enjoy the shafting we are about to receive.

We have all heard of the global economic crisis of 2007, 2008.
Has anybody heard of the global economic crisis of 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014?
I would think not. This has been an NZ phenomenon created by the actions of this govt. as has been the decline in our rankings vis a vis other OECD countries.
That we are higher up in some measures may be attributed to the fact that this govt. hasn't meddled in those areas.
The 'recession' we have been sold is similar to the 'recession' we always end up with when the electorate swallows the line that a National led govt. will be good for this country.
Swallowing this line and expecting different outcomes is nuts.

[bluninja]

Who knows what miracles hackers can perform. If they can hack the NSA/FBI/CIA then don't you think hacking someone's home PC is gonna be pretty easy? Why bother to question it? Unless of course you're trying to deny that what Hager has is evidence?

Clearly Hager has what he believes is information obtained illegally that he can use for personal gain. Without the source device and some means of checking network logs, or some evidence independent of the details in the USB drive all you have is some sensational drivel. With just a command prompt and a few simple line commands one could construct an email trail that could have a conversation going between any 2 people complete with time stamps.

As for the facebook; unless the site owners verify the source, destination, and time stamps match up with the published "conversations" then who can prove if it really happened?

[MisterD]

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. No one else in the media has been asking questions of the closeness between govt. and blogs and the lawfulness or morals of disclosing information.

Have you thought a bit further about why that might be? I'd say it's because it's exactly how all political parties and all political journalist work. I wonder what all the lefties would be saying if this was Andrea Vance's emails that had been hacked and we could see who leaked that report to her...

The NZSIS and OIA stuff is the most damning.

Oh dear, and it appears to be manufactured lies.: http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/tw...s-hagers-book/

Hager is not an investigative journalist weighing evidence and seeing where it leads. He's an activist with a pre-chosen message, cludging stuff together (and I have absolutely no doubt manufacturing bits and pieces where he's missing a piece) to make it fit the way he wants.

[Oscar]

If we take notice of history the realisation that differing political affiliations do in fact lead to radically different outcomes.
The looting of this countries assets and the future denigration of our independence are actions that need to be resisted.
Our Nationalistic pride has been subverted and replaced by a jingoistic belief that being a part of the great US hegemony is good for NZ and we should just roll over and enjoy the shafting we are about to receive.

We have all heard of the global economic crisis of 2007, 2008.
Has anybody heard of the global economic crisis of 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014?
I would think not. This has been an NZ phenomenon created by the actions of this govt. as has been the decline in our rankings vis a vis other OECD countries.
That we are higher up in some measures may be attributed to the fact that this govt. hasn't meddled in those areas.
The 'recession' we have been sold is similar to the 'recession' we always end up with when the electorate swallows the line that a National led govt. will be good for this country.
Swallowing this line and expecting different outcomes is nuts.

So NZ caused a Global Economic Crisis which has been going on from 2009 to now?
That's funny I could have sworn that NZ's economy was one of the fastest growing in the OECD.
It's probably too much to expect that you would back these assertions up with some facts, isn't it?
How are you going with your "Mumbai has the most billionaires" thing"?

[mashman]

Clearly Hager has what he believes is information obtained illegally that he can use for personal gain. Without the source device and some means of checking network logs, or some evidence independent of the details in the USB drive all you have is some sensational drivel. With just a command prompt and a few simple line commands one could construct an email trail that could have a conversation going between any 2 people complete with time stamps.

As for the facebook; unless the site owners verify the source, destination, and time stamps match up with the published "conversations" then who can prove if it really happened?

All very true. In which case a denial should not only be easy, but they should also be able to shut down his book. Oddly enough, the book hasn't been shut down and you have to ask why?

I haven't read anything about the farcebook stuff, but again, if it's so easy to deny, then why hasn't there been a denial yet or better yet, why isn't Hager hugging vertical bars and singing De Camptown Ladies?

[mada]

Have you thought a bit further about why that might be? I'd say it's because it's exactly how all political parties and all political journalist work. I wonder what all the lefties would be saying if this was Andrea Vance's emails that had been hacked and we could see who leaked that report to her...




Oh dear, and it appears to be manufactured lies.: http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/tw...s-hagers-book/

Hager is not an investigative journalist weighing evidence and seeing where it leads. He's an activist with a pre-chosen message, cludging stuff together (and I have absolutely no doubt manufacturing bits and pieces where he's missing a piece) to make it fit the way he wants.

Yeh, nah I'll wait for an independent inquiry before choosing to believe whaleoil.

I'm sure if there is nothing to hide and everyone wants the truth a Commission of Inquiry into all the OIAs and info leaked from official channels will be okay.

[Mr Revhead]

Yeh doesn't look like very serious stuff at all:

http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/08...itics-summary/

You are quoting the dim-post as a factual summary of a book by Hagar about political conspiracy?

[Mr Revhead]

Yeh, nah I'll wait for an independent inquiry before choosing to believe whaleoil.

I'm sure if there is nothing to hide and everyone wants the truth a Commission of Inquiry into all the OIAs and info leaked from official channels will be okay.

aaannnndd you then refuse to believe anything form the other side?
Your see saw won't work with that much bias

[mada]

You are quoting the dim-post as a factual summary of a book by Hagar about political conspiracy?

These are allegations.

I haven't said they are facts. Read above post where I say an independent Commission of Inquiry is best avenue for the truth. :face palm:

[Mr Revhead]

All very true. In which case a denial should not only be easy, but they should also be able to shut down his book. Oddly enough, the book hasn't been shut down and you have to ask why?

I haven't read anything about the farcebook stuff, but again, if it's so easy to deny, then why hasn't there been a denial yet or better yet, why isn't Hager hugging vertical bars and singing De Camptown Ladies?

What planet are you on?
There has been denials.
Legal stuff doesn't happen instantly, lawyers need to time.

[mada]

aaannnndd you then refuse to believe anything form the other side?
Your see saw won't work with that much bias

Clearly you have no bias. Which is why you would probably oppose an independent inquiry.... and called for bullets to be put in peoples heads ya FUCKING FASCIST.

[Mr Revhead]

all you want, you're the one believing dim post and Hagar


As pointed out by many, there is as yet 0 evidence. Most of the stuff in the book is apparently not actually direct coms with Slater and National, it's other bloggers.

Think about it, he as said they were acquired in an illegal way. So he's set himself up. Why?
Because it's false and therefore he acquired nothing illegal so it will be very hard to take legal action. Sure he may get a slander case or two. But no jail time for illegal activities.

But here is the key: He is counting on the average NZer just skim reading sensationalist head lines and not actually reading and thinking about the facts.
THAT right there is his goal, his object and his backers/financers goal.

He's counting on the technique of throwing a whole pile of mud, (all of it so far unverifiable) and hoping some sticks, or creating the illusion that some has stuck.
Distracting from the real issue's of how the country is actually being run.


Simple really. And simple falls for simple.

[Mr Revhead]

Clearly you have no bias. Which is why you would probably oppose an independent inquiry.... and called for bullets to be put in peoples heads ya FUCKING FASCIST.

I prefer the term realist. But whatever floats your boat, I shall refer to you as a Tinfoil Hatter of the Loony persuasion

Oh btw, there is this thing called "a figure of speech"

[mashman]

What planet are you on?
There has been denials.
Legal stuff doesn't happen instantly, lawyers need to time.

I'm from planet, I could give a fuck coz it's nothing more than shitslinging. Better that than a myopic fucktard.
What you call a denial and what I call a denial are obviously two entirely different things.
bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa. Of course they do, that's why we can't bang through emergency legislation as and when they feel... oh, wait on.

[mada]

all you want, you're the one believing dim post and Hagar


As pointed out by many, there is as yet 0 evidence. Most of the stuff in the book is apparently not actually direct coms with Slater and National, it's other bloggers.

Think about it, he as said they were acquired in an illegal way. So he's set himself up. Why?
Because it's false and therefore he acquired nothing illegal so it will be very hard to take legal action. Sure he may get a slander case or two. But no jail time for illegal activities.

But here is the key: He is counting on the average NZer just skim reading sensationalist head lines and not actually reading and thinking about the facts.
THAT right there is his goal, his object and his backers/financers goal.

He's counting on the technique of throwing a whole pile of mud, (all of it so far unverifiable) and hoping some sticks, or creating the illusion that some has stuck.
Distracting from the real issue's of how the country is actually being run.


Simple really. And simple falls for simple.

Ah so you've read the book?