Elections are coming up. What are we thinking?

[bluninja]

As much as you like, same as the hammer i.e. the value that humans decide it is worth in the context of their economy. Tricky to grasp, but I have hopes for ya.

I'd pay more for a tool that is easier to grasp

[mashman]

I'd pay more for a tool that is easier to grasp

Well if it takes your hand off the dick on your head, then I reckon we'll both be winners. Couldn't resists old habits n all . The idea is that you won't have to grasp or pay anything at all. It matters not what a hammer costs in the grand scale of things, unless, that is, you decide to value them as you would value diamonds. Why is a nice diamond so expensive as they're dug up by slave labor? Perhaps they're expensive because the spades cost a fortune.

[Maha]

The Flav' last night almost outdone Bruce Beetham's (Soc Cred) line from years ago, he was one ''Ya Know'' short of the record answering ''Ya know Ya never know''.
Brucey mastered owned it by saying ''Well Ya Know Ya Never Know Ya Know''

[oldrider]

By divorcing every man woman and child in this country from the system and the affect hat the system has on their behaviour. It's a decision away. I've made my decision and believe that not only is it possible, it'll make THE change that is required to render every other consideration moot. The human endeavor is there, the money isn't... and even when it is it's nowhere near where it needs to be for one reason or another, primarily subsidising jobs that aren't really required in the business process, bodies that could go towards bolstering health and education.

They can't stop this, because it will be the will of a people merely exercising their democratic vote. It doesn't happen now, because the people have never been asked. They can't stop this, because I see it as an inevitability and quite likely within 10 years, quite possibly 5 years and who knows, perhaps in 3 years time once a few more people have been asked.

It's happening right now, there are R.B.E. centric political parties popping up around the globe John. lol... space was great business once upon a time. Now it's a militarised zone. Nothing works better than money, so use nothing instead

Not trying to rain on your parade Gordon but I first read about the problem and the solution when I was 21 (1960) and was sure that it would be no time at all until the country woke up but alas we are very little further ahead!

The major obstacles are the power of the beneficiaries of the financial malady and the power of the media, (who are puppets of the former) the stupidity or dishonesty of the political incumbents at any given time and the apathy of the people who most need the change, the citizens!

The same applies to any country in the "free" democratic world!

I have not given up hope and neither should you or anyone else but you have to face reality of the size of the beast you are up against!

[mashman]

Not trying to rain on your parade Gordon but I first read about the problem and the solution when I was 21 (1960) and was sure that it would be no time at all until the country woke up but alas we are very little further ahead!

The major obstacles are the power of the beneficiaries of the financial malady and the power of the media, (who are puppets of the former) the stupidity or dishonesty of the political incumbents at any given time and the apathy of the people who most need the change, the citizens!

The same applies to any country in the "free" democratic world!

I have not given up hope and neither should you or anyone else but you have to face reality of the size of the beast you are up against!

No rain my friend, I'm fully aware of how crazy it sounds and that people made noises about this and that back yonder when. Some formed organisations that survive to this day and that's just as well by the looks of things. So no offence taken in the slightest. However, life was slightly different back then and I think the apathy that has developed over time is due to there being no alternative. Time will tell eh.

They're all ruled using money. Remember that image? Remove the money and there's no hold over the media.

One country at a time eh

[bluninja]

They're all ruled using money. Remember that image? Remove the money and there's no hold over the media.

One country at a time eh

If Scotland vote for independence they could be the first as they won't have their own currency

[Brian d marge]

By divorcing every man woman and child in this country from the system and the affect hat the system has on their behaviour. It's a decision away. I've made my decision and believe that not only is it possible, it'll make THE change that is required to render every other consideration moot. The human endeavor is there, the money isn't... and even when it is it's nowhere near where it needs to be for one reason or another, primarily subsidising jobs that aren't really required in the business process, bodies that could go towards bolstering health and education.

They can't stop this, because it will be the will of a people merely exercising their democratic vote. It doesn't happen now, because the people have never been asked. They can't stop this, because I see it as an inevitability and quite likely within 10 years, quite possibly 5 years and who knows, perhaps in 3 years time once a few more people have been asked.

It's happening right now, there are R.B.E. centric political parties popping up around the globe John. lol... space was great business once upon a time. Now it's a militarised zone. Nothing works better than money, so use nothing instead

I doubt we could move way from a "money" system ( Money not currency)
We may be able to partially move away. Local communities supplying most of their needs, probably even happens now in some of the remote, smaller places in nz.
Certainly we have to put a stop to wealth transfer by overseas interests, by this I mean interests that do not share NZ core values such as large chinese investors.
I think if people start providing for themselves , and this is happening! And sharing with the local community through local institutions , schools church , pub etc . The move away from the debt will become stronger
I read about a man ( Stuff.co.nz this morning ), who quote" works like an animal" just to stay afloat , in the next sentence it was revealed that 1/2 his 2000 dollars a week went in to the roof over his head.
That is just wrong. If we as a community adress the house and remove his 1000 a week yoke , imagine how much improve the family would be
I wonder how that yoke was imposed.
Solution; how about houses of modest size owed by the state at a retal of 1/3 the minimum wage, ( in mixed areas , ie in both rich and poor areas hahahaha that would piss a few people off!)

As for the cost of the spade, we all know whats going on, So WHY doesnt one of the talking heads just stand up and say the current economic model imposed on nz is not working and we need to do a, b, and c to reclaim a society for decent people.
I mean even sharp 7 did a story on fiat money.....there is hope

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

If Scotland vote for independence they could be the first as they won't have their own currency

Theres a small voice in me saying it wont happen . I hope it does and joins the BRICS bank system ...but there is still an awful lot of oil still there ......dot dot dot ......

Stephen

[mashman]

If Scotland vote for independence they could be the first as they won't have their own currency

The last I saw the Scots had their own currency (however between NAB and the demise of RBS that may not be true today?), fuckin hard to exchange in england at times though. Seriously. I hope they vote yes and see where it goes from there. They have lots of water and provide many services to the rig industry out there. Wonder who'd get custody of the nooks and nook bases dotted around?

[mashman]

I doubt we could move way from a "money" system ( Money not currency)
We may be able to partially move away. Local communities supplying most of their needs, probably even happens now in some of the remote, smaller places in nz.
Certainly we have to put a stop to wealth transfer by overseas interests, by this I mean interests that do not share NZ core values such as large chinese investors.
I think if people start providing for themselves , and this is happening! And sharing with the local community through local institutions , schools church , pub etc . The move away from the debt will become stronger
I read about a man ( Stuff.co.nz this morning ), who quote" works like an animal" just to stay afloat , in the next sentence it was revealed that 1/2 his 2000 dollars a week went in to the roof over his head.
That is just wrong. If we as a community adress the house and remove his 1000 a week yoke , imagine how much improve the family would be
I wonder how that yoke was imposed.
Solution; how about houses of modest size owed by the state at a retal of 1/3 the minimum wage, ( in mixed areas , ie in both rich and poor areas hahahaha that would piss a few people off!)

As for the cost of the spade, we all know whats going on, So WHY doesnt one of the talking heads just stand up and say the current economic model imposed on nz is not working and we need to do a, b, and c to reclaim a society for decent people.
I mean even sharp 7 did a story on fiat money.....there is hope

Stephen

I'd love to agree that debt was the problem, but I don't. If you decide to inject free money into the system in order to "balance the books", as well as offer a full debt amnesty and then start again, you're going to end up printing money for money's sake. If you hold the patents etc... then you can charge what you like. You can then influence who you like to do what you like. The same malpractice will exist.

Looking on the brighter side, you will end up with enough money for everyone to carry on being a rampant consumer. Resources run out. You wish to speed this up? We're wasting a fuckload of resources (including pointless jobs, I'd rather people took up underwater basket weaving as they'd be producing something). It kinda needs to stop for many many many reasons, not limited to, environmental issues, poverty, war, disease etc...

Not being rude, but I don't see that much of a change where money still exists in the frame. I reckon it'd be much easier to use the current and recognised process in order to elect a party that would game the system to the benefit of an entire country i.e. we build what we choose to build, we fix what we choose to fix and how we choose to fix it, we educate how we choose, but more importantly, we charge what we like for those goods and services within NZ borders and then report that to a bank account. If you are in control of the pricing, you can change the price of any good or service or tax or infringement notice etc... to hit any target you like by the end of the year.

I'm prepared to carry on doing what I'm doing if the majority will in order to have a shot at instigating real change.

[Brian d marge]

I'd love to agree that debt was the problem, but I don't. If you decide to inject free money into the system in order to "balance the books", as well as offer a full debt amnesty and then start again, you're going to end up printing money for money's sake. If you hold the patents etc... then you can charge what you like. You can then influence who you like to do what you like. The same malpractice will exist.

Looking on the brighter side, you will end up with enough money for everyone to carry on being a rampant consumer. Resources run out. You wish to speed this up? We're wasting a fuckload of resources (including pointless jobs, I'd rather people took up underwater basket weaving as they'd be producing something). It kinda needs to stop for many many many reasons, not limited to, environmental issues, poverty, war, disease etc...

Not being rude, but I don't see that much of a change where money still exists in the frame. I reckon it'd be much easier to use the current and recognised process in order to elect a party that would game the system to the benefit of an entire country i.e. we build what we choose to build, we fix what we choose to fix and how we choose to fix it, we educate how we choose, but more importantly, we charge what we like for those goods and services within NZ borders and then report that to a bank account. If you are in control of the pricing, you can change the price of any good or service or tax or infringement notice etc... to hit any target you like by the end of the year.

I'm prepared to carry on doing what I'm doing if the majority will in order to have a shot at instigating real change.

Still cant see how in todays current society u can stop using money

Up to a point yes in small communities of around 200 yes maybe
But once you start inter community trade ya needsome kind of token
Non debt based
Bitcoin in theory

[mashman]

Still cant see how in todays current society u can stop using money

Up to a point yes in small communities of around 200 yes maybe
But once you start inter community trade ya needsome kind of token
Non debt based
Bitcoin in theory

Fair enough, although I see it as nothing more than a decision away.

I don't see why one would need a token given that every community would still require the same goods/services from other communities around the country that they have been relying on for years. The token limits outcome and I reckon people would rather have the outcome than wait for enough money to become available in order to afford to pay for the outcome. Guess we'll see.

[MisterD]

What I'm mostly thinking this morning is: Where the fuck is Hone?

Has he had a falling out with Kimmy? What was the deal with the car crash? Are those two things related?

[bogan]

I'd pay more for a tool that is easier to grasp

In the interest of calling a spade a spade, remove the bullshit and such schemes comes down to one of two things with equivalence in the current economy; inflation due to govt printing money to pay for hammers, or additional taxation of all hammers goods traded (we never established which as mashy doesn't like the realities of thoroughly thinking things through so gave up). Should be easier to grasp, and I won't even charge you

[mashman]

In the interest of calling a spade a spade, remove the bullshit and such schemes comes down to one of two things with equivalence in the current economy; inflation due to govt printing money to pay for hammers, or additional taxation of all hammers goods traded (we never established which as mashy doesn't like the realities of thoroughly thinking things through so gave up). Should be easier to grasp, and I won't even charge you

Of course we established which, because it can be either or both... you didn't like that answer because you need it to be one of two things . It's an asset or a liability depending on how you choose to value it at that very moment in time in order to achieve the desired financial economic outcome. Still fuckin hilarious that you can't grasp the concept.