I would like to apologise for being a westerner

[Banditbandit]

If those statements and facts regarding targeting of children is correct (which I am rather unsure about given the amount of misinformation that is being generated and sold as fact and news by the various news sources) then that is categorically wrong and horrendous and completely inexcusable in my view and opinion.

That said, in any war there will be those on either side of the rift that are evil people capable of carrying out even actions. War allows those who exist amongst us who have a general disposition towards hurting other people and enjoying their "blood lust" to have an outlet where they are more than likely to get away with it. This will be true of EVERY NATION, RELIGION & PEOPLE ON EARTH. To base your contentions or view around a specific war simply around the acts of individual people who would be fucked up, evil sods no matter which side they are on is a very narrow way to view a situation and is, simply put, fraught with leaking holes.

One other thing. It isn't the Jews who you see in fundamentalist groups calling for the blood of "westerners" or "infidels". Don't be confused for one fucking minute. There are radical groups in Islam (which is, unfortunately, over -represented) who would happily slice your and my throats along with those of our partners, wives and children. They state it themselves. (Note - I am not talking about all Arabs or muslims here...there are many just like us). Have a look at some of the absolute atrocities that they are willing to perpetrate on "unbelievers" ...and they BELIEVE that they are honoring God by doing so. I don't recall EVER hearing of Israel talking about us (Westerners / non-Muslims) that way. In fact, they have traditionally looked at us as somewhat allies.

Don't believe me? Try travelling to Israel and then go visit some Fundamentalist Muslim states. Let me know your thoughts when/if you make it back alive.

I continue to be sad for the suffering of all of the many innocent people that inevitably get caught up in war, but I make absolutely no apology for my opposition of Hamas and any other groups like them, nor my support in general for Israel. I hope that cunt who (allegedly) is taking shots at Palestinian children get a lead enema.

I agree with most of what you say. There are nasty violent and criminal action son both sides ... I fail to see how you can choose the side of Israel .. they are no better, or no worse than the Palestinians ... I don't support either side in this one ..

The silly fuckers should just stop all this crap.

Except the Jews/Israelis were never in Palestine in the preceding thousands of years of world history at all. The promised land was always just a fable in their version of the bible.
There are actually about 3-4 different sects of Jews from all over Europe and central asia and they lived a nomadic gypsy style existence, tolerated just by most old nations.

Hmm .. let's see ..

It's certainly true that the slaves of Egypt rebelled (that's in the Egyptian records) and fled north into the area across the Red Sea.

It's certainly true that in this area, there was a small area known as Judah when the Romans took it over ... somewhere back in the BCE time ... It was NOT exclusively occupied by the religious group now known as Jews ... It was certainly occupied by almost all the people of group we know call Jews (a little different from the nation/state of Israel.)

In 70AD, after numerous rebellions, the Romans got pissed off with the people of Judah and basically chucked them out. Destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem (all that is left is the Wailing Wall) and exiled the Jews .. that's when they become the nomads and gypsies that you describe - because no-one wanted them ... That happened in the AD period, so the religious gfroup have been there for at least 2,000 thousand years ... (Check the Roman writings - this is not reliant on the biblical myth ...)

Yes, there are Hazidic and Seraphim Jews - Ashkanaze (spelling? Can't be fucked ...) .. all developed post the Diaspora of 70AD, just like the numerous sects of Christianity ...

Does that give the descendants of the Diaspora people to claim, nearly 2,000 years later, that it is "their land? .. I have no idea ... they took it by force and terrorism ... which is exactly what all humans do ..

And with regards to someone elses post, they are not racist in the sense we know of. They don't hate the Palestinians because their arabs, they hate them because they are GOY (alien, as in the way maori use the term pakeha). Anyone who is not an Israeli is regarded as sub human Goy, something the poor americans will find out once the Israeli lobby over there is done bleeding them dry through subsidies and loans...

And in todays news it seems the bloodied baby killing money of Israel is as good as anyone elses money for our local Iwi.
They want to export Fish to them to keep those hungry soldiers well fed...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay...ectid=11305252

We have well learnt, from people like DonKey, that money is the most important thing ...

Like here .. Russia is embargoing food imports from many countries .. BUT will take lamb and cheese from New Zealand ...

Poor old DonKey ... he must not know whether to be annoyed because he wants to be seen to be supporting the USA .. AND at the same time he will be rubbing his hands with glee because we have a huge market opening up for us .. just when we need it ...

How torn is he I wonder ??

[ellipsis]

How torn is he I wonder ??

...he has numerous professionals surrounding him who are good with glue and touch up's, so we will never know...his smile will always be manufactured well and not slip...

[Brett]

I agree with most of what you say. There are nasty violent and criminal action son both sides ... I fail to see how you can choose the side of Israel .. they are no better, or no worse than the Palestinians ... I don't support either side in this one ..

The silly fuckers should just stop all this crap.

Because my view of Israel is around larger matters than simply this current Gaza/Palestine issue. Simply:

1) As a gross generalisation, the Arab/Muslim world have little time for us Westerners.
2) This morning on Aljazeera, reporting in Iran that Fundamentalist Muslims are again rocking around the countryside attacking another religious faction who will not convert to Islam, killing many and raping many of the women.
3) Israel are not the ones I ever have to worry about strapping a vest on and walking into somewhere where I and my family are and becoming Ahmed Chick BOOOOOOOM.
4) Who broke this latest ceasefire? Gaza fired the first missiles AGAIN after mediation was not successful.
5) Why are Israel even in Gaza? Because when they were given the land under the original accord in the 1940's the Arab Nations took exception to this, thus ganging up on the tiny nation and the 6 day war ensued where Israel handed them their arses and sent them packing - taking some additional land in the process. Again, their neighbours took the first strike, Israel finished the fight.

I really could go on for a long time.

[mada]

Because my view of Israel is around larger matters than simply this current Gaza/Palestine issue. Simply:

1) As a gross generalisation, the Arab/Muslim world have little time for us Westerners.
2) This morning on Aljazeera, reporting in Iran that Fundamentalist Muslims are again rocking around the countryside attacking another religious faction who will not convert to Islam, killing many and raping many of the women.
3) Israel are not the ones I ever have to worry about strapping a vest on and walking into somewhere where I and my family are and becoming Ahmed Chick BOOOOOOOM.
4) Who broke this latest ceasefire? Gaza fired the first missiles AGAIN after mediation was not successful.
5) Why are Israel even in Gaza? Because when they were given the land under the original accord in the 1940's the Arab Nations took exception to this, thus ganging up on the tiny nation and the 6 day war ensued where Israel handed them their arses and sent them packing - taking some additional land in the process. Again, their neighbours took the first strike, Israel finished the fight.

I really could go on for a long time.

A quick question, has there ever been democracy in the arab/muslim world? What do you think happens to peoples perceptions of the west when democracy is suppressed and countries such as UK/US support mass murderers?
Lastly, hundreds of thousands of people witness their family members getting blown up, killed and maimed, if it was you - you wouldn't seek revenge?

[Ocean1]

A quick question, has there ever been democracy in the arab/muslim world?

Yes. Ibadites. Several different flavours since at least the 8th century. Plenty of other examples from many different tribes from pretty much all of recorded history.

[mada]

Yes. Ibadites. Several different flavours since at least the 8th century. Plenty of other examples from many different tribes from pretty much all of recorded history.

Yep. How much of hotbed would Iran be if democracy and Mohammad Mosaddegh had not been overthrown. Oil and resources are always worth more than democracy.

[Ocean1]

Yep. How much of hotbed would Iran be if democracy and Mohammad Mosaddegh had not been overthrown. Oil and resources are always worth more than democracy.

Pointless argument is pointless.

Tribal democracies are common. What's not common is geographically exclusive areas where tribal democracies are a majority.

Count yourself lucky.

[puddytat]

Here's the final solution.......

[mashman]

Here's the final solution.......

Cannot spread. Perhaps they could move into the ghost cities of China.

[puddytat]

Chicago is vacant as well...
China doesn't really like the Uigar much or any upstart minority staking a claim.
The jews will fit right in , in the good ole land of Uncle Sam & it'll make it a lot easier to visit their rellies.

[oldrider]

Chicago is vacant as well...
China doesn't really like the Uigar much or any upstart minority staking a claim.
The jews will fit right in , in the good ole land of Uncle Sam & it'll make it a lot easier to visit their rellies.

They are already well ensconsed there especially into New York and their Zionist movement is in control of the USA anyway, have been for years!

[Brett]

A quick question, has there ever been democracy in the arab/muslim world? What do you think happens to peoples perceptions of the west when democracy is suppressed and countries such as UK/US support mass murderers?
Lastly, hundreds of thousands of people witness their family members getting blown up, killed and maimed, if it was you - you wouldn't seek revenge?

1st bit - Rather wide question to tackle in this post given my current time...needless to say, a bit complicated.

2nd - yes I would, and that swings both ways. I go back to exactly WHO it was that through the first stone and continues to do so.

[Brett]

Pointless argument is pointless.

Tribal democracies are common. What's not common is geographically exclusive areas where tribal democracies are a majority.

Count yourself lucky.

Quite a true statement actually.

[Katman]

I go back to exactly WHO it was that through the first stone and continues to do so.

I doubt that even the Israelis or Palestinians remember who threw the first stone.

It's a bit rich you suggesting that you know with any degree of certainty.

[mada]

I doubt that even the Israelis or Palestinians remember who threw the first stone.

It's a bit rich you suggesting that you know with any degree of certainty.

Exactly...

Irgun existed well before Hamas.

It certainly doesn't justify killing innocent women or kids 50 years later.

And if the West wants to try and halt Islamic extremism then they could stop Israel breeding more through its current collective punishment strategy - but also stop funding regimes which oppress and oppose democracy in the Middle East and stop protecting and trading with the oil barons (Saudis, and Qatar) who end up financing most of the terror groups from Somalia to Afganistan.