Nigel Latta's new series

[oldrider]

Who is Nigel Latta?

He could be the former but on reflection he is probably the latter!

[Ocean1]

Ocean is absolutely right. The effects of reducing wages and job opportunities in Western economies is offset by massive increases in living standards for people who a generation ago were living in a dump with no electricity or access to first-hand food or water. We don't get to see that. The convergence in living standards will mean a reduction in living standards for a minority, of which even the poorest in NZ are a member of. We are, each of us, stupendously rich compared to most of the world's population.

But we do get to see it. You have an excellent Korean motorcar, not a Marina. You have several TVs that cost a couple of days work each, not a Philips K9 that took you 3 years of saving to get. And I'm sorry but anyone that doesn't see that their living standards are hard wired to tech innovations that make the industrial revolution look like selecting a slightly bigger rock to pound lunch with and the huge growth of global trade is, quite literally an idiot.

The choice is as it always should be: do something productive with your professional life, something that others want to pay for, or join the ever growing 1st word social welfare deadweight that will inevitably drag the rest of the 1st world back to the stone age.

[mada]

The choice is as it always should be: do something productive with your professional life, something that others want to pay for, or join the ever growing 1st word social welfare deadweight that will inevitably drag the rest of the 1st world back to the stone age.

I like that type of cut throat view of society, every man for himself! Helps us understand why so many people nowadays turn to producing and selling meth. At least they earn and spend more than they receive in benefits right?

[Voltaire]

I saw many of my own family members get rich that way, borrow and buy up large - doing the DIY work themselves, then using the rents to become mortgage free while also making capital gains. Sure it involved them working doing repairs, maintenance etc, but on a wider scale it was not ECONOMICALLY PRODUCTIVE for the country or society or the communities as a whole where they invested. And where's most of the money? Sitting in the bank, now gaining interest off those trying to climb on the ladder...

The last sentence makes me think you've forgetten priorities. Usually what comes first is having a roof over ones head/ an income, doing everything to sustain the first two, then food, and then anything else. Consumer electronics and movies have absolutely fuck all relevance to anything when the cost of the a roof over ones head is so much and families barely have enough to feed their children, and are so desperate they have to borrow from loansharks to pay for a car to get fixed for WOF simply so they can continue to get to their work. When one of life's problems comes up such as a family funeral etc. there simply is no extra cash for it.

What you would do if it was you?

If you were on minimum wage and only just managing to pay off the bills (RENT, PETROL, minimal shit food) and were living in Wellington and one of your sons passed away in Auckland, but you could not afford to take time off work nor the travel costs to see him, what would you do? Skip the rent? Borrow from a loan shark? Skip the funeral???????

Clearly not a situation I would like to be in, glad my old man left his impoverished family 40 acre farm in the West of Ireland and took a punt.
He was going to go with his Brother but he ended up stuck with the farm, they tossed a coin to decide on where they were applying to go....New Zealand or Rhodesia.

[mada]

Clearly not a situation I would like to be in, glad my old man left his impoverished family 40 acre farm in the West of Ireland and took a punt.
He was going to go with his Brother but he ended up stuck with the farm, they tossed a coin to decide on where they were applying to go....New Zealand or Rhodesia.

Good bet, very lucky not to go with Rhodesia!

Mine great great greats were lucky too coming over from Donegal during the potato famine.

[Ocean1]

I like that type of cut throat view of society, every man for himself! Helps us understand why so many people nowadays turn to producing and selling meth. At least they earn and spend more than they receive in benefits right?

As opposed to the view that someone else is always going to provide for you? Time to grow up, son, learn to wipe your own arse.

And I think you'll find the rate of convicted criminals is considerably higher amongst what you call the "lower socio-economic class". They're forced to it by roving gangs of senior exec's ravening for their bonuses no doubt.

[R650R]

Yeah I have been lucky, lucky enough to find an apprenticeship in the Mulddoon " Wage Freeze " era, work lots of overtime, go to Aussie, work hard there, then the UK for a couple of years till the recession hit and I was unemployed for the first time ever.....went to Lewisham College got a City and Guilds in Refrigeration, came back to NZ, worked up to Building Controls and then for myself????
As they say the harder I work the luckier I get.

I gave my two boys the " get a trade" talk as they were not Uni types.

Lucky you, although we are still effectively in a wage freeze for many industrys thanks tot he artificial rate of inflation used by news and employers...
Soon even you and your boys will be in same boat as everyone else. Our universities are training people from previously near third world countries in the skilled trades. And just look at the influx of skilled migrant workers for the chch rebuild. Soon the Elite will get the numbers right and each trade will gradually be driven down in its value as far as wages go.

The vast majority of people on this planet have never had it so good. A theory supported by most experts who've got no particular axe to grind. But, y'know, now that you're all worked up about it don't let the facts slow you down

So got any 'facts' to back up this generic number of the 'vast majority' whove never had it so good. Is it the whole world or just developed western countries???

But we do get to see it. You have an excellent Korean motorcar, not a Marina. You have several TVs that cost a couple of days work each, not a Philips K9 that took you 3 years of saving to get. And I'm sorry but anyone that doesn't see that their living standards are hard wired to tech innovations that make the industrial revolution look like selecting a slightly bigger rock to pound lunch with and the huge growth of global trade

Standard of living is not defined by how much your Tv cost or where your car was made... BTW the new tvs are cheap cause they are made in overseas sweatshops and its debateable wether modern cars represent better value for money over old given how quick they wear out and the expense to replace electronic components that fail eg airbags electric windows etc...
Sure there's some hi tech stuff in our homes but the real important stuff like cost of accommodation and food has risen dramtically.
Then theres the rampant crime and disorder driven by alcohol and drugs, kids aren't safe to explore places on their own etc...
Communication has suffered with the interweb and cellphones laying slaughter to the engrish language so young and old don't know what each are saying...
We only have huge growth in global trade as treasonous fools in govt opened the watertight doors that tariffs were and let jobs be offshored. oh wow look at all those logs we're exporting, oh wow look at all that cheap crap flatpack furniture laden with formaldehyde made in Chinese sweatshop.

[sidecar bob]

wether modern cars represent better value for money over old given how quick they wear out and the expense to replace electronic components that fail eg airbags electric windows etc...

Oh fuckin dear, someones talking out their arse again. Seriously, you are just guessing arent you.

[mada]

As opposed to the view that someone else is always going to provide for you? Time to grow up, son, learn to wipe your own arse.

And I think you'll find the rate of convicted criminals is considerably higher amongst what you call the "lower socio-economic class". They're forced to it by roving gangs of senior exec's ravening for their bonuses no doubt.

LOL in real life mate. I like how you assume that because of my views I must be someone with my hand out.

How about the view that helping out one another and those less fortunate generally leads to us all benefiting from a better and fairer society? And it doesn't necessarily involve simply giving more money. If we are playing the assumption game I would hate to think about your views on those with disabilities and the support they should receive... survival of the fittest eh.

The lower SES certainly figure in crime stats more, both as perps and as victims. But does govt. wiping peoples arses really explain why crime rates between fairer western nations and more unequal western nations are so much different? Does the American government wipe its citizens arses so much more than Norway that it results in a 400 times higher murder rate?

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...d-States/Crime

In unequal societies the poor are not the only ones who suffer, the rich pay through being victims of crime too..

[Ocean1]

So got any 'facts' to back up this generic number of the 'vast majority' whove never had it so good. Is it the whole world or just developed western countries???

This western enough for you? http://www.nber.org/papers/w15433

What about this: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_317365.pdf

And actually the west has done less well than the developing nations: http://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/20...7_chapter1.pdf

And for general review and some useful links: http://www.rd.com/best-of-america/ch...e-to-be-alive/

"This generation has experienced more peace, freedom, leisure time, education, medicine, and travel than any in history. Yet it laps up gloom at every opportunity. Consumers do not celebrate their wonderful field of choice and, according to psychologists, say they are “overwhelmed.” When I go to my local superstore, I do not see people driven to misery by the impossibility of choice. I see people choosing."


You ungrateful bastard.

Standard of living is not defined by how much your Tv cost or where your car was made... BTW the new tvs are cheap cause they are made in overseas sweatshops and its debateable wether modern cars represent better value for money over old given how quick they wear out and the expense to replace electronic components that fail eg airbags electric windows etc...
Sure there's some hi tech stuff in our homes but the real important stuff like cost of accommodation and food has risen dramtically.
Then theres the rampant crime and disorder driven by alcohol and drugs, kids aren't safe to explore places on their own etc...
Communication has suffered with the interweb and cellphones laying slaughter to the engrish language so young and old don't know what each are saying...
We only have huge growth in global trade as treasonous fools in govt opened the watertight doors that tariffs were and let jobs be offshored. oh wow look at all those logs we're exporting, oh wow look at all that cheap crap flatpack furniture laden with formaldehyde made in Chinese sweatshop.

If you measure standards of living in terms of how many Austin Allegros you have then I have good news: everyone else can't give the remains away fast enough. I was in London, working a stone's throw from Dagenham when the press published the series of inside stories about night shift production. It didn't exist. Literally. Nobody was surprised, it'd been obvious for years that the union had Ford UK and the rest of the auto industry firmly en route to extinction, pausing only to produce the most outrageously crap cars of all time. By comparison the Great Wall range of vehicles are outstanding quality at about a tenth of the cost.

As for food prices: I have a vegie garden. My vegies cost me far more than supermarket ones because I'm a shit gardener, but how many of those supposedly unable to afford local market prices grow theirs?

Accommodation? You're wrong, see if you can find historic comparative prices for hrs worked per metre floorspace. You could ask our Japan correspondent, he's up with it.

[Ocean1]

LOL in real life mate. I like how you assume that because of my views I must be someone with my hand out.

How about the view that helping out one another and those less fortunate generally leads to us all benefiting from a better and fairer society? And it doesn't necessarily involve simply giving more money. If we are playing the assumption game I would hate to think about your views on those with disabilities and the support they should receive... survival of the fittest eh.

The lower SES certainly figure in crime stats more, both as perps and as victims. But does govt. wiping peoples arses really explain why crime rates between fairer western nations and more unequal western nations are so much different? Does the American government wipe its citizens arses so much more than Norway that it results in a 400 times higher murder rate?

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...d-States/Crime

In unequal societies the poor are not the only ones who suffer, the rich pay through being victims of crime too..

I didn't suggest you were. But you defend massively unproductive behaviour in the name of "justice".

It's not.


As for the disabled, if the average Kiwi wasn't draining the consolidated fund as much as they currently do we'd be able to look after those than can't do so themselves a fucking sight better than we currently do.

Nor did I suggest govt handouts had anything to do with crime. Get your causal links sorted, dude, what actually causes crime is criminals. In spite of the outrageously soft touch that is social welfare NZ, not because of any lack of support.

[Scuba_Steve]

By comparison the Great Wall range of vehicles are outstanding quality at about a tenth of the cost.

Well that's confirmed my suspicions, have you ever been tested? I believe they offer home help for people with intelligence such as yours

[R650R]

I have a vegie garden. My vegies cost me far more than supermarket ones because I'm a shit gardener, but how many of those supposedly unable to afford local market prices grow theirs?

I'm a shit gardener too, enjoyable activity but a walk to the supermarket makes more sense time and money wise.
So how many landlords out there (cause the poverty stricken generally aren't home owners) would let tenants dig up the backyard for a vege garden???? not many I suspect...

[Ocean1]

I'm a shit gardener too, enjoyable activity but a walk to the supermarket makes more sense time and money wise.
So how many landlords out there (cause the poverty stricken generally aren't home owners) would let tenants dig up the backyard for a vege garden???? not many I suspect...

Why the fuck wouldn't they? If a prospective tenant asked me if he could dig a garden in the back yard I'd pay for seeds, and I'd say he'd be all the more likely to be there in a couple of years time.

Never pass up an opportunity to encourage good productive enterprise.

[yokel]

My economic solution would be take woman out of the work force and them back in the kitchen.
The reduction in available labor would lead to nice pay increase for all yay!