11 September - 4 years on

[Pixie]

The guy behind the Rainbow Warrior bombing is now living in America, manufacturing anti-terrorist weapons - totally unrepentant. I feel like going over there, grabbing one of his own weapons and shooting him with it, just to see how effective it is at eliminating terrorist scum.

That or blowing up a ship full of French miltary - if I could achieve it without them surrendering the second I got within thirty kilometres of them...

I'll never forgive the French for the sabotage in Auckland.
They had the chance to kill all those hippies and only got one.

[terbang]

Had a layover in NY and went and saw Ground Zero..Fuck its a sobering sight but I also saw a poignant bit of grafitti on the wall there that read WE GOT YOU NOW SADDAM YOU BASTARD that got me thinking. I am not really a fan of the way Saddam ran his country and he really is a bad one but realisticly I thought it was Bin laden that did the deed and now Saddam is taking the wrap. Looks like Geo and his cronies have done a fine job of pulling the wool over joe public yanks eyes and have gone to war in Iraq in retaliation to 911. Why is this? Because they can't catch the real bad guy so they get the next best thing? Good excuse to settle an old score from the 1st gulf war? Or is it because Binladen has no Oil and Saddam has?
As allready pointed out we in NZ are no strangers to terrorism and I still think the French are absolute pricks for their sinking of the Rainbow Warrior and I also sy full marks to Lange for nearly making a silk purse out of a sows ear.
However I, in a previous life, flew for Palestinian Airlines (yup us Kiwis do fly) and saw a side to their arguement that you won't see on CNN or BBC. One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist..

[Skyryder]

and saw a side to their arguement that you won't see on CNN or BBC. One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist..

The Arabs were promised Palistine by the British during the 1st world war. So too were the Zionists. In short to gain support against the Germans and their allies the Brits promised Palistine to two opposing groups then reneged on the deal and took over control themselves. They did much the same thing with the House of Saud, then backed another family I think it was the Rashide's. The Americans became involved and backed the Saudi's, hence Saudi Arabia and the Americans closest Middle Easter ally. I read some stuff on this some time ago. Been meaning to get back to the historical issues but just not had time.

For those interested

Arabia Unified M Almana 953.8 RAH

Faisal De Gaury 953.8 FAI

Desert Sheild to Desert Storm Dilip Hiro 956.743

Nine Parts of Desire Islamic woman. Geradine Brooks (recommended)

The House of Saud Aburish 953.8 ABU (recommended)

The Road to Ramadan Mohamid Heikal 962 0.5 HEI


Skyryder

[oldrider]

I humbly offer my apologies here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, Beruit etc.).

I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.

I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.

I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.

I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth,

I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.

I am sorry that Yasir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and high-jacked the Palestinian "cause.

I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.

I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems.

I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society, like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).

I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.

I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.

I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise."

I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other non-combatant civilians are legitimate targets.

I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.

I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.

I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.

I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.

I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site."

I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church — one of our Holy Sites.

I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, Beruit, the murders and beheadings of Nick Bergand, Daniel Pearl, etc...etc,



We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw Abu Garib reported in the news, we were like—so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong! Sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured, we were trying to kill those same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?

Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burned among a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.

If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait!

You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins!

I'm sorry more people don't understand and appreciate these things, good post SARGE.

I'm also sorry that the stupid Frenchies didn't blow up the whole of the "modern" Greenpeace wankers as well but in their own backyard.

Can't the French ever get anything right? :spudwhat: John.

[Wolf]

STILL BITTER ABOUT THE RAINBOW WARIOUR , ALWAYS HOPE AND PRAY THAT THE NEXT BIG TERRORIST ACT IS IN FRANCE AND IS HUGE , WEATHER YOUR A TREE HUGGING HIPPY OR NOT THEY FUCKED WITH ALL OF US WHEN THEY BOMBED THAT BOAT IN "OUR" HARBOUR

With you there - they commited an act of war in our territory and blew up a boat flying the Canadian flag - an act of war against Canada.

Then, gutless fuckers the Frogs are, they disavowed all knowledge yet threatened us with trade sanctions for arresting what they claimed were "Swiss tourists".

As the Frog Govt officially disavowed knowledge of the actions of their murderers, the teams and their commanders were officially pirates - deliberately not "flying their colours" - as Sir Francis Drake was a "pirate" when he sunk Spanish ships without the "official sanction" of Elizabeth I.

As pirates, we were within our rights to summarily execute them without trial - the cops would have been legally allowed to draw a pistol and shoot them dead at the scene of the arrest.

If they did have official sanction then they were saboteurs operating covertly and commiting an act of war and so the same applies.

I would have loved it if they'd caught the Ulvea and her crew on the open seas and just blown the boat out from under 'em.

Only the frogs are so gutless they have to use a coward's weapon in the dark against a bunch of unarmed hippies - they can't even face up to unarmed opponents with "nasty loud mouths", gods help us if they ever have to stand up to an "enemy" armed with weapons.

France's response to a sudden upturn in terrorism would probably be to remove all the Gideon Bibles from their hotels and replace them with copies of the Quran and put Halal foods on the menu.

They could plant palm trees down the Champs Elysees so the terrorists will feel at home - the Wehrmacht appreciated the shady trees the French planted for 'em back in '38...

[terbang]

Those bloody frogs didnt give a shit about us when it came to test their nukes in our part of the world as well and now our National Airline is flying French aircraft..!

[Skyryder]

I'm sorry more people don't understand and appreciate these things, good post SARGE.

I'm also sorry that the stupid Frenchies didn't blow up the whole of the "modern" Greenpeace wankers as well but in their own backyard.

Can't the French ever get anything right? :spudwhat: John.

I for one do Oldrider. There is nothing wrong with Sarges sentiments. Unfortunately American Middle Eastern policy is the result of much of his post. It suited them to back Saddam when it was in their interests to do so. They gave him the green light to invade Kuwait and when the Saudi's became alarmed put together a coalition that resulted in Desert Storm. The result of that is todays debacle. I personaly have never had a problem with the invasion of Iraq.
It was never about oil as those who oppose Bush's invasion claim. It was primarily to install a freindly government with sympathies to America for intellagence gathering purposes. But Bush lost the plot. He lied about Saddam's nuclear weapons capability and in doing so America lost any credibility. Now they are talking about democracy. Another load of Bullshit from the Administration. Again America has never been to fussy about who it sleeps with. It activley supported a fascist to overthrow a democratiicly elected Government. There are some who see CIA in the downfall of Gough Whitlam.

Greenpeace. If it was not for Greenpeace I have no doubt that the French would still be contaminating our own back yard. Love them or hate them I thank God that our society allows such activity. There are many that would do as you suggest.

Skyryder

[terbang]

A couple of paralells here.

(1) Vietnam
(2) Iraq

(1) Roman Empire
(2) USA

[chris]

Having read thru' the whole shi-bang,agreeing with OldRider,this one sticks out mo' than most...
Dude, i'm concerned about you!

I will make sure that my tongue in cheek comments are more obvious next time

[Indiana_Jones]

Well at least some others think that the media is a left thing hunk of dribble

-Indy

[Jamezo]

He lied about Saddam's nuclear weapons capability and in doing so America lost any credibility. Now they are talking about democracy. Another load of Bullshit from the Administration. Again America has never been to fussy about who it sleeps with. It activley supported a fascist to overthrow a democratiicly elected Government.

*A* democratically elected government?

A list of democratically elected governments overthrown, not just by the US, but also other western powers, and replaced with dictatorships, would stretch for some considerable length.

Looking back through history, every single time a country has made an effort for self-determination; true democracy representing the actual interests of the bulk of the population, they have never lasted for more than a few years.

Whether by overt invasion, supported subterfuge and sponsored guerilla warfare, or assassination and subsequent military coups, Western powers have made absolutely sure that any steps towards real democracy have been met with destruction. Needless to say, this is a major factor in the number of shattered countries all around the world without responsible governments.

No, it not some inherent factor about all those "sand niggers" that prevents them from maintaining some semblance of functioning government, rather the extraordinary efforts the western powers have made during the last hundred years in propping up murderous dictatorships in these places.

[Wolf]

*A* democratically elected government?

A list of democratically elected governments overthrown, not just by the US, but also other western powers, and replaced with dictatorships, would stretch for some considerable length.

Looking back through history, every single time a country has made an effort for self-determination; true democracy representing the actual interests of the bulk of the population, they have never lasted for more than a few years.

Whether by overt invasion, supported subterfuge and sponsored guerilla warfare, or assassination and subsequent military coups, Western powers have made absolutely sure that any steps towards real democracy have been met with destruction. Needless to say, this is a major factor in the number of shattered countries all around the world without responsible governments.

No, it not some inherent factor about all those "sand niggers" that prevents them from maintaining some semblance of functioning government, rather the extraordinary efforts the western powers have made during the last hundred years in propping up murderous dictatorships in these places.

Interesting assertion. I am not doubting you as I do not know on what you base your assertion. Can you please clarify and cite instances? To what end is this being done?

[Jamezo]

Interesting assertion. I am not doubting you as I do not know on what you base your assertion. Can you please clarify and cite instances? To what end is this being done?

To cite but an extremely small few:

Nicaragua: One of the most tragic events of the 20th century. A people's revolution, led by the socialist Sandanista movement, makes enormous (really, absolutely staggering) strides in improving the lot of the population. They were setting an extremely bad example for neighbouring countries, who were beginning to develop popular-based movements of their own, in opposition to the traditional colonial puppet governments.

The US poured money into funding the fascist militia that was fighting for the expelled government. With direct US military and political support (hooray for UN veto power!!!!), they fought a bitter guerilla war, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of Nicaraguans. With their once promising country shattered by years of war, the time was right to install a US puppet, by means of the same democratic process that allowed the popular revolution.

The US puppet narrowly achieved victory after a campaign in which a gun was basically held to the heads of the Nicaraguans. If they refused to concede control of their country to the US candidate, the war would be continued and escalated until there was simply nothing left. This was also helped by the massive US-sponsored propaganda efforts (if I recall, over $10 USD was spent on propaganda per registered voter!), which reported this message very plainly.


Actually, I'm actually too tired to say more right now, but a quick google reveals many people have collated some exhaustive information.

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa01.html

Here is a list of US-sponsored coups over the past imperialist period. Note that this lists only pure coups, and not the direct military invasions, guerilla campaigns, or any other vile means.


As to why, from the state-capitalist view it is pretty clear. The role of other smaller countries is to act as markets for US goods, to provide natural resources to the west, and to provide cheap labour for western firms.*

Any population-based move towards democracy is clearly against this, and thus is completely unacceptable in the eyes of said state-capital sector.

*ps. It seems that page I linked to elaborates on this further.

[Swoop]

Another thing that is not widlely known is that when the French secret service agents Alain Mafart and Dominique Prieur were being held in custody at Rolleston Prison there were serious fears that they would be 'sprung.' Lange's decision to have them serve out there time at Muriora atoll (??) was, in part, in fear of this. However the real reason for Lange's decision was that France was threating our trade within the European community. But what pisses me off more than anything else about the Rainbow Warrior bombing was that the National Party was in the throes of formulating policy that would exploit Frances threat to our trade for their own political gain.

Skyryder

Rolleston??? Nope. Ardmore military prison.
Reason why? Better area for a firefight - less "collateral damage" and all the players apart from the euroscum were familiar with the "playing field"...

[Skyryder]

Rolleston??? Nope. Ardmore military prison.
Reason why? Better area for a firefight - less "collateral damage" and all the players apart from the euroscum were familiar with the "playing field"...

Sorry my mistake. Tha atoll was not Muroa but Huo or some name very simular.

Skyryder