EBR 1190RX - Review

[sil3nt]

Love the look, the tech and the fuel economy!

[Laava]

Don't forget the more sensible brother!

[Devil]

Amusing review.

Sounds like a good bike, but I just cant get over the looks.

[Oblivion]

I think it would look nice with underbelly pipes, or even something like the MV brutale with the 3 on the side just before the swingarm.

....Dont judge me...

[Mike.Gayner]

Amusing review.

Sounds like a good bike, but I just cant get over the looks.

Yeah unfortunately American styling leaves a lot to be desired. I could never spend that much money on a bike I didn't want to look at.

[Laava]

Amusing review.

Sounds like a good bike, but I just cant get over the looks.

Really? What is it about it that doesn't do it for you? Not criticising, as to me it just looks like a sports bike. Not a fan of the muffler but that is easily sorted. But the rest of it looks pretty usual to me. The reviews all say good things but it seems that big perimeter disc has done it's day. They say it is costing them 3 sec a lap in the superbikes as well.

[haydes55]

Really? What is it about it that doesn't do it for you? Not criticising, as to me it just looks like a sports bike. Not a fan of the muffler but that is easily sorted. But the rest of it looks pretty usual to me. The reviews all say good things but it seems that big perimeter disc has done it's day. They say it is costing them 3 sec a lap in the superbikes as well.

Surely having a few hundred grams on the wheels won't attribute solely to a 3 seconds per lap disadvantage? If the increase in braking performance isn't worth the decrease in turning ability, accept it as a design flaw, re-engineer it. Erik Buell seems like the guy who would change a production bike for a 0.1 second advantage

[avgas]

Really? What is it about it that doesn't do it for you? Not criticising, as to me it just looks like a sports bike. Not a fan of the muffler but that is easily sorted. But the rest of it looks pretty usual to me. The reviews all say good things but it seems that big perimeter disc has done it's day. They say it is costing them 3 sec a lap in the superbikes as well.

Fairing and Headlights.

I loved the 12R and 12S.........these new Buels just look like some sort of KawaHonda hybrid. All covered in over inflated plastic.

[Laava]

Surely having a few hundred grams on the wheels won't attribute solely to a 3 seconds per lap disadvantage? If the increase in braking performance isn't worth the decrease in turning ability, accept it as a design flaw, re-engineer it. Erik Buell seems like the guy who would change a production bike for a 0.1 second advantage

The disadvantage is from poorer braking, not from extra weight. In fact the perimeter disc is lighter than a twin disc conventional. But if they put two perimeter discs on...
But they prob can't change on the race bikes because of homologation.

Fairing and Headlights.

I loved the 12R and 12S.........these new Buels just look like some sort of KawaHonda hybrid. All covered in over inflated plastic.

Everyone hated the looks of the 1125r too but it didn't bother me at all. I thought it was kinda funky. Agree about the XBr and s. The tank/frame comb is a big winner for me!

[Devil]

Really? What is it about it that doesn't do it for you? Not criticising, as to me it just looks like a sports bike. Not a fan of the muffler but that is easily sorted. But the rest of it looks pretty usual to me. The reviews all say good things but it seems that big perimeter disc has done it's day. They say it is costing them 3 sec a lap in the superbikes as well.

Headlight looks pretty dated, although modern Honda-ish - which I hate. Exhaust is a novel idea, but poorly executed - just doesn't look good, looks cheap. But yeah pipes are a common issue on bikes now.
There's just something cheap looking about the thing in general - reminds me of a Kwaka 250 or similar. That kinda of cheap black paint. It looks a bit of a mish mash of parts.

[Laava]

Headlight looks pretty dated, although modern Honda-ish - which I hate. Exhaust is a novel idea, but poorly executed - just doesn't look good, looks cheap. But yeah pipes are a common issue on bikes now.
There's just something cheap looking about the thing in general - reminds me of a Kwaka 250 or similar. That kinda of cheap black paint. It looks a bit of a mish mash of parts.

I see your point. Would be interesting to see the quality control IRL. My last bike was an 1125r and I loved it. There were no issues with quality, plenty with styling it would seem. But it was friggen nice to ride and relatively easy to work on. Easiest wheel removal I have seen on any bike in a long time. Wish I could afford to own 2 bikes, I would have kept it. Guy that bought it relisted it on TM the following weekend and it is still there! Cheapest 1125 on the market by a long shot!

[Ocean1]

Surely having a few hundred grams on the wheels won't attribute solely to a 3 seconds per lap disadvantage? If the increase in braking performance isn't worth the decrease in turning ability, accept it as a design flaw, re-engineer it. Erik Buell seems like the guy who would change a production bike for a 0.1 second advantage

That front brake assembly is several Kg lighter than typical sprotsbike dual brembos. Look at the quantity of material NOT in the front wheel spokes. Material not in the calliper mount because the load's less. Minimum unsprung weight is one of Buell's pet design targets.

The discs on the XBs have been known to suffer early death due to less than perfect material spec's, but outside of that they work fucking well on the road. I deliberately pushed my 1125 brakes on Manfeild, to see how much reserve I had, gave them hell for 4 laps and there was no noticeable loss of power. Having said that the disc was a very dark blue, it'd been very very hot.

They're definitely pushing the design limit for materials, both pads and discs, because of the much higher surface speeds and lower mass in which to dump the same amount of heat. But according to most reviews by people that, unlike me actually use most of a bike's capabilities they're 95% as good as anything else out there.

Why persist with something 5% less good? Because sooner or later they'll develop materials that can handle the extra speeds and heat as well as anything else used on smaller disc setups. From what I hear they're just about there now, and they still have that several Kg advantage in unsprung mass.

They're not doing well at WSB level, they say that's mostly down to the fact that they're using engines straight off the assembly line and the electronics package is limiting available HP. I don't really care, if I'm in the market for a superbike I'm not silly enough to equate race results to desirable road performance. Those motors may be short 30odd HP as they sit on the grid but they hit fucking hard everywhere in the rev range, and that makes them a very pleasant machine to use on the road.

[Ocean1]

Headlight looks pretty dated, although modern Honda-ish - which I hate. Exhaust is a novel idea, but poorly executed - just doesn't look good, looks cheap. But yeah pipes are a common issue on bikes now.
There's just something cheap looking about the thing in general - reminds me of a Kwaka 250 or similar. That kinda of cheap black paint. It looks a bit of a mish mash of parts.

I like the RX. Unfortunate, because I'm too big for it. And I don't need a sprotsbike. Not really.

I don't particularly like the headlight on the SX, but I could live with it. What upsets me is things like the pressed steel pipe guard on the right, there. Pressed sheet steel anything usually looks cheap, even if it is a good design solution.

[Drew]

I've been pretty clear that I don't lime the front brakes on these things. And it hasn't been altered by this review.

Lets examine what's gone into making them possibly only 5% less efficient than the system everyone else employs. They got made heavier than they used to be, by losing the ventilation holes and putting slots in. Then they try and duct air at it...and it's still notvas good.

Mark, you reckon they'll find materials to make them as good as everyone elses gear. But, everyone else can use those materials and the bar gets that much higher again.

Gas in the frame? Hope they have sorted out it pissing out the overflow, when ya fill the bike up when it's warm.

Seems to me, Eric is using the same model as Harley. Make something, then fight tooth and nail to not have to change it.

[Ocean1]

I've been pretty clear that I don't lime the front brakes on these things. And it hasn't been altered by this review.

Lets examine what's gone into making them possibly only 5% less efficient than the system everyone else employs. They got made heavier than they used to be, by losing the ventilation holes and putting slots in. Then they try and duct air at it...and it's still notvas good.

Mark, you reckon they'll find materials to make them as good as everyone elses gear. But, everyone else can use those materials and the bar gets that much higher again.

Gas in the frame? Hope they have sorted out it pissing out the overflow, when ya fill the bike up when it's warm.

Seems to me, Eric is using the same model as Harley. Make something, then fight tooth and nail to not have to change it.

Mate in all of the history of tech improvements in bikes, (or anything else) over the years very roughly none have been as a result of doing things the way everyone else does. So the very first thing any design for a new machine that's got any chance of being better has to be is :different.

In the case of Buell's inside out brake there's quite a few design spin-offs that contribute to the likely improvements available. That makes it difficult to analyse it's overall effectiveness, but most users seem to agree that those improvements are indeed there. There's really only one disadvantage: Heat. The torque involved in a superbike's front brake equates to well over 100hp's worth. Pretty much all of that energy is converted to heat. Same energy from the same braking force, but Buells have maybe just 60% of the disc mass to absorb it, so they get a lot hotter, which has been the challenge from day one. Slots? probably no more material involved, and you could get slotted racing discs from Buell for the XBs years ago.

The EBRs are different from the 1125s, geometry has changed, zorst is new, it's longer wheelbase, more head angle... a lot of what made up the early bikes characteristic handling has changed. That's not a sign that they're resisting change in spite of poor performance. And the RX brake has received better reviews than the XBs or the 1125.

As for everyone else jumping on any improvements in materials technology, good on 'em, they'll probably improve performance as a result. But not much. Where's the advantage for them in materials capable of higher temperatures if they don't get that hot in the first place?

Now the tank overflow was just piss poor attention to detail, there's probably a reason they didn't vent it to the right hand, uphill side but I doubt it's a very good one.