EBR 1190RX - Review

[Drew]

While I don't disagree that change is the way forward, and how to improve. If the system was better and heat were the only enemy, all GP bikes would use them made of carbon. Since the biggest problem they currently have is that they need to be hot as all fuck.

Sorry man, it's just not as good. That bugs the shit out of me.

[Ocean1]

While I don't disagree that change is the way forward, and how to improve. If the system was better and heat were the only enemy, all GP bikes would use them made of carbon. Since the biggest problem they currently have is that they need to be hot as all fuck.

Sorry man, it's just not as good. That bugs the shit out of me.

You've got it the wrong way around dude. GP bikes aren't some technological cutting edge that production bikes should aspire to. Their function is to sell bikes, production bikes, their most important feature is that they need to look like the bike punters will see in the showroom Monday.

They're just advertising, and it's MUCH cheaper to invest in advertising than to waste money actually building more advanced motorbikes, to race or to sell.

[Drew]

They are advertising....that works best if they win. To win, the bikes need to be the best.

[Ocean1]

They are advertising....that works best if they win. To win, the bikes need to be the best.

And look like a production bike.

Which isn't actually the same thing as "best" for either a race bike or a road bike.

[Urano]

But the rest of it looks pretty usual to me.

and that's the problem...

That front brake assembly is several Kg lighter than typical sprotsbike dual brembos. Look at the quantity of material NOT in the front wheel spokes. Material not in the calliper mount because the load's less. Minimum unsprung weight is one of Buell's pet design targets.

yea...
but we have to keep in mind a pair of problems.
first, rotating things have their masses multiplied by the gyro effect, while linear moving parts have not.
so having a 100gms less that moves in a linear way is better when the wheel have to deal with road bumps, but having even the same weight closer to the hub is better in any occasion. that's why we still have 320 discs which i had on a 90's 125 futura, and attempts to make them larger have still been proved useless.
i have huge doubts about the efficiency of the rim solution when it comes to gyro effect, as well as thermal expansion control and thermal transmission to the rim AND the tires.

the second problem is that single sided claws do destabilize the bike as you start braking. while wandering around on the road you'd find hard to notice that, but when you demand a little more it becomes annoying...

i wouldn't buy a single sided front disc bike anymore nowadays, except maybe a very cheap 250cc commuter...

so:

Why persist with something 5% less good? Because sooner or later they'll develop materials that can handle the extra speeds and heat as well as anything else used on smaller disc setups. From what I hear they're just about there now, and they still have that several Kg advantage in unsprung mass.

several kgs seems to me a wild guess... in an old interview, buell's engineers talked about a 30% in weight reduction.
but the problems with gyro and heat remain.

i keep being convinced that buell's choice is, more than other, a market recognize factor.
the same way ducati keeps its engine mounted front trellis, which has been proven to be way less efficient than an integral frame. since it has little downsides in everyday riding and it's sooooo cool...


all in all, i don't like buell's bikes.

[pritch]

all in all, i don't like buell's bikes.

Well Urano, i'd sort of assume that in Italy people would be wearing red, white and green tinted glasses and would buy Ducati or MV?
Just as some in the USA might be similarly motivated to buy an EBR instead of an Italian bike.
Here, being neutral we can choose whatever spins our crank - and there's always somebody who wants to be different.

[Urano]

sorry i've been late for my mandolin lesson...

Well Urano, i'd sort of assume that in Italy people would be wearing red, white and green tinted glasses and would buy Ducati or MV?

...and aprilia. don't forget aprilia. even if we're too dumb to promote them as they deserve.
...uh, and guzzi. ya, but that only is if you're old.
all the others (bimota, borile, ghezzi&brian, morini...) are for strange people...

Here, being neutral we can choose whatever spins our crank - and there's always somebody who wants to be different.

ok, but it's not that EVERYTHING that's "different" is also "good".
there's a lot of "different" thing in the world, some are good some are... meh...
zanella: http://www.zanella.com.ar/producto.php?pid=19
ktm: http://www.ktm.com/nz/supersport/119...l#.U-iNCcIcCMQ (ok, this is actually very good...)
minsk: http://minsk-moto.com/en/street/r250.html (with the trellis swingarm... wow...)
bultaco: http://www.bultaco.es/rapitan
norton: http://www.nortonmotorcycles.com/bikes/commando-961-sf/
janus: http://janusmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/halcyon-50/

[pritch]

sorry i've been late for my mandolin lesson...



...and aprilia. don't forget aprilia. even if we're too dumb to promote them as they deserve.
...uh, and guzzi. ya, but that only is if you're old.
all the others (bimota, borile, ghezzi&brian, morini...) are for strange people...



ok, but it's not that EVERYTHING that's "different" is also "good".
there's a lot of "different" thing in the world, some are good some are... meh...
zanella: http://www.zanella.com.ar/producto.php?pid=19
ktm: http://www.ktm.com/nz/supersport/119...l#.U-iNCcIcCMQ (ok, this is actually very good...)
minsk: http://minsk-moto.com/en/street/r250.html (with the trellis swingarm... wow...)
bultaco: http://www.bultaco.es/rapitan
norton: http://www.nortonmotorcycles.com/bikes/commando-961-sf/
janus: http://janusmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/halcyon-50/

My apologies to Aprilia and to Guzzi for the omission. And I must be nearly old enough for a Guzzi but...

Who knew about Zanella or Minsk? It seems sad to see the name Bultaco on an electric bike, I'll always associate the name with two stroke racers.
Then there's Janus. Styled like a Brough Superior but hopefully selling for a lot less money.

[Urano]

It seems sad to see the name Bultaco on an electric bike, I'll always associate the name with two stroke racers.

i think it's a good idea instead.
let's face it: not being in the top badge means to be damned to oblivion and bultaco has gone down that road 15 years ago.
how sad is seeing glorious derbi makin cheap and ugly 50s?
cagiva which is kept artificially alive only to build a regrettable shadow of the sparkly 90's mito?

one way or another electric is a growing part of the market, who cared if they maked the whatever1000ccanonymousbike?

even HD, lookin to expand its market share, has gone to electric.
and i think buell should have done something similar too...

[deeknow]

Hey all, sorry to drag up an old thread (ok, I'm not sorry really, get over it ) but...

Am rather taken by the 1190RX, there are a couple for sale in NZ now at what seems like a reasonable price, and I'd love to know if anyone has actually owned one, or knows someone who has.

Be especially interested in any feedback on any tech issues, any recalls, what support has been like from the few retailers that seem to be around etc. Seems like the front rotor has had issues in a couple of reports but when replaced has been ok. And that EFI fueling was a little sketchy initially but I assume that 2yrs later thats flashable to sort out. The heavy clutch was an early "thing" but apparently there was a factory avail master cylinder update avail to lighten it up? Oh and sounds like valve-clearance checks are at pretty regular/short intervals, not super worried about that except that living in Hamilton will require a road-trip and maybe leaving the bike out of town just for servicing (the curse of buying something not Japanese I guess)

thanks in advance,
Dean

[Laava]

I rode one and the fuelling seemed fine, it had loads of power and smooth from right down low. It was a demo and the front rotor was good but the earlier 1125 was very prone to them warping. The valve clearances are no problem to do, bit fiddly but aren,t most big sportbikes theses days? Availabilty of parts would be my biggest concern...there is a chance that the phoenix may rise from the ashes but don't hold your breath.