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Thread: BRONZ, how about having a rethink on the 1 September ride?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    Bullshit! Read my sig.
    Love your sig, specially the bits about liberty by the two slave owners.....
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  2. #47
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    I've been doing my bit - I've not fallen off for many many years. You bastards are costing me plenty.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    I've been doing my bit - I've not fallen off for many many years.
    Best you go and touch your wood. Don't want you to be jinxed.
    No body move... I dropped my brain

  4. #49
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    I know, lets all go on an organised ride to parliament (or some other landmark in your local municipality), when we get there we can all burn effigies of our number plates (that way we can avoid potential fines by hanging on to the real ones) while chanting "fuck ACC, fuck ACC" (who paid to fix up my partner/relative/friend when they had their accident) etc etc. Meanwhile all the tickets being given to the hundreds of unregistered cars out there (being driven by the drop-kicks on Police 10 seven/Highway Patrol) will continue to clog up the courts.

    I'm getting flashbacks to 2009 (?) when I read many threads like this which, once the initial surge of outrage died down, amounted to not very much. I suspect the reason why nobody can agree on an effective means of protest is because there isn't one.

    I also suspect these decreases are there to soften the blow for when they bring the 'safety ratings' for cars. Once they're in place they'll slowly turn the heat up on drivers as well (I'm assuming the majority drive the 'least safe' cars). Haven't heard a peep from Labour (I'm assuming?) about making any changes to ACC.

    In the meantime I'm not going to be too hard on anyone protesting in any way they think is appropriate, it's a lot easier to complain than it is to act.
    Moe: Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I...I can't compete with that stuff.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    Love your sig, specially the bits about liberty by the two slave owners.....
    Just because they owned slaves doesn't belittle their views on freedom. Like anyone, they had to learn for themselves that the accepted norms they grew up with needed to change.

    From the PBS web site: Like most people of his period, Franklin initially believed that African slaves and their offspring were inferior to white Europeans and that they couldn't be educated. He began to question his beliefs when he visited a school where young African children were being taught. In 1763, he wrote a letter to an English friend where he stated, "I was on the whole much pleased, and from what I then saw, have conceived a higher opinion of the natural capacities of the black race, than I had ever before entertained. Their apprehension seems as quick, their memory as strong, and their docility in every respect equal to that of white children."

    "He (Thomas Jefferson) was an opponent of the slave trade, disliked the effects of slavery on society, and believed slavery harmful to both slave and master." - Howe (1997), Making the American Self: Jonathan Edwards to Abraham Lincoln, p. 74
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    Just because they owned slaves doesn't belittle their views on freedom. Like anyone, they had to learn for themselves that the accepted norms they grew up with needed to change.

    From the PBS web site: Like most people of his period, Franklin initially believed that African slaves and their offspring were inferior to white Europeans and that they couldn't be educated. He began to question his beliefs when he visited a school where young African children were being taught. In 1763, he wrote a letter to an English friend where he stated, "I was on the whole much pleased, and from what I then saw, have conceived a higher opinion of the natural capacities of the black race, than I had ever before entertained. Their apprehension seems as quick, their memory as strong, and their docility in every respect equal to that of white children."

    "He (Thomas Jefferson) was an opponent of the slave trade, disliked the effects of slavery on society, and believed slavery harmful to both slave and master." - Howe (1997), Making the American Self: Jonathan Edwards to Abraham Lincoln, p. 74
    In 1807, the British government passed an Act of Parliament abolishing the slave trade throughout the British Empire. Slavery itself would persist in the British colonies until its final abolition in 1838. However, abolitionists would continue campaigning against the international trade of slaves after this date.
    Probably why they wanted independence from England, so they could carry on with it for another 60 or so years.
    reading about the Vietnam war and how despite only being 12% of the population the AfroAmericans made up 41% of the front line troops.
    Liberty my arse.
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    Probably why they wanted independence from England, so they could carry on with it for another 60 or so years.
    That may well have been true for some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    reading about the Vietnam war and how despite only being 12% of the population the AfroAmericans made up 41% of the front line troops.
    Liberty my arse.
    The US (and most, if not all, of the rest of the world) definitely has a long way to go.

    The ideal and the actuality don't always coincide.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    That may well have been true for some.


    The US (and most, if not all, of the rest of the world) definitely has a long way to go.

    The ideal and the actuality don't always coincide.
    True, it still has a long way to go.
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  9. #54
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    Jeez John boy! say what you really mean will ya.
    Getting a taste for this intawobble stuff I see.
    Every day above ground is a good day!:

  10. #55
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    I think the best idea I've seen on here is for us all to all pay towards a professional lobbyist team. BMF and MAG in the UK do this very well. Unfortunately BRONZ is not in the same league, in spite of their best intentions. If anything serious ever comes about I will happily support it both financially and with my time, which is the most valuable thing anyone has to offer. But sorry, there are too many sheeple for anything to happen :-(

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    We could stop having crashes.

    That'd learn 'em.
    Brilliant! That would be ace. It would just need all riders to think and take a few simple actions:
    - plan corners, so they don't run out of talent
    - expect drivers to pull across on corners - so slow down and prepare for it
    - don't think of overtaking in stupid places

    Do you think it could happen? No, me neither

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperMac View Post
    Brilliant! That would be ace. It would just need all riders to think and take a few simple actions:
    - plan corners, so they don't run out of talent
    - expect drivers to pull across on corners - so slow down and prepare for it
    - don't think of overtaking in stupid places

    Do you think it could happen? No, me neither
    There's a very simple answer why not - humans are fallible. Long may this continue. I'm a perfectionist at heart but even I recognise how boring life would be if all human fallibility was removed.

    The accident and injury rate for motorcycles is about as low as it's going to get and any attempt to alter rider behaviour on a population wide basis (i.e. anything other than direct one on one mentoring) is futile and counter productive.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    Yes, but what's the desired outcome from that protest action? Bikers shouldn't ride for free, but how much it too much, in terms of registration and ACC costs?

    Talks about "fairness" may sound nice, but what do they mean?

    The biker community needs to decide what it wants based on it analysing all of the issues, not just one or two. It's not hard to do this and it wouldn't take too long. But between now and 1 September is a bit of an ask.
    Having lived in the UK during the 'Thatcher years' I was there during the 'Poll tax' fiasco......
    by year 3, the local bodies were upping the poll tax to cover the shortfall of the non paying people. It required 2 things to change the law...

    MASS non payment, even though many did go to court for non payment...
    and
    MASS protest......
    If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayWolf View Post
    Having lived in the UK during the 'Thatcher years' I was there during the 'Poll tax' fiasco......
    by year 3, the local bodies were upping the poll tax to cover the shortfall of the non paying people. It required 2 things to change the law...

    MASS non payment, even though many did go to court for non payment...
    and
    MASS protest......
    The number of people protesting over Poll Tax were probably two orders of magnitude greater as a percentage of population than the number of holders of class 6 licenses in NZ let alone active riders.

    Using that as a definition of "Mass" motorcyclists will do nothing but aggrieve an already aggrieved public and bureaucracy. Their stance is we deserve our punishment for being high users of recovery and medical services as a percentage of the population.

    Having a bitch about it being "unfair" that private motor vehicle users get a levy reduction and motorcyclists don't simply means that we've failed to make an impact on how data is collected and manipulated statistically and we've failed to make any inroads on the arguments that show that modern motorcycles can make significant contributions to improving congestion and are starting to take emissions management seriously. Couple that with ABS being adopted as a standard fitment (except in places like NZ where the conservative user base still thinks that dropping a bike is the best way to avoid an accident) along with optional traction control and engine management modes and you have some significant potential safety gains to communicate to the aformentioned public and bureaucracy.

    Instead, BRONZ have seemingly planned a wahhh-fest instead of trying to engage with with a bureacracy who is only interested in how they can curb what we cost taxpayers.

    I agree that we need professionals running the show. Someone with a doctorate in Transport Politics would be a good start.
    Friends are like balloons; if you stab them, they die.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    There's a very simple answer why not - humans are fallible. Long may this continue.
    What a celebration of mediocrity.
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    Oh I must really irk you to be repeatedly proven to be a total utter moron in public.

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