Nicky Hager

[scott411]

Nicky Hagar should get some kind of award for what he's brought forth. Yet there are those fuckwits among us who think he is somehow on the same level as the main characters in this fiasco ,who are only involved to better their own ends.
Whereas, he is doing this for the sake of our country.
If you don't think so, then look at those other countries where corruption is rife, endemic & the norm in politics & business....Imagine how more fucked up this country would be if we let that kind shit become the norm.

Don't let it happen New Zealand.

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/01...ur-news-media/

Bullshit, he did it for money and fame the same as slater does it,

[oldrider]

Bullshit, he did it for money and fame the same as slater does it,

Yep it's what they do FFS!

[dinosaur]

Bullshit, he did it for money and fame the same as slater does it,

You're just shit stirring right? I would never put him in the same category as Slater slime ball
I don't agree with everything in the book, and we all know from his past political life that he is left leaning liberal - which I am not
But he has never been sued or found to be wrong yet - after a bunch of investigative books

I bet most people spouting off about him had never even heard of him prior to this book! Have you ever read one of his books, do you know what he does for a living, do you know what his last book was, what about the book prior to that?
people have a habit of shooting the messenger, basing your intel on a 'feeling' you have

He earns more from his lecturing at Uni (considered Australasia's foremost expert on Journalism) than his books
He has degrees in both physics and philosophy - but of course some people dismiss that because they like to bash tall poppies and educated people so they feel better about them-self, and he does look a bit weird in a David Bane kind of way ......... obviousley something wrong with him based that alone ....right
Considered by the European Parliament as the worlds leading expert on the ECHELON worldwide electronic spy network
Endorsed by former New Zealand Prime Ministers, including David Lange and Jim Bolger

look up;
The Center for Public Integrity (CPI)
International Consortium of Investigative Journalists
He has and is accepted as having integrity beyond most journalists in the country - but of course to the TV educated you will believe everything the media feeds your underdeveloped brains

Un like most of our jouno's he does not have to come up with stories daily, he is not working in an office where they are understaffed and put to a deadline; resulting in them becoming puppets of bloggers and politicians instead of taking the time to investigate facts and being independent

[Banditbandit]

So you're tolerably well off. Congratulations. Wasn't that difficult, was it?

No - in fact I just wanted to be a drop out - but people keep offering me well-paid jobs ...

So why do you feel the need to bleat about the "system" treating people inhumanely?

Because I have a social conscience pea?

Anyone that wants to succeed can do so more easily now than at any time in our history, and yet all I ever hear is how the "system" is to blame for people's failure.

No - I disagree - it is harder now - especially as people have to pay their own tertiary education fees. Wasn't like that when I first went to tertiary education.

We have also made it harder by fetishizing qualifications, so now jobs people would have got, and done very well at, with no quals, now need a certificate. Jobs that once needed a certificate now need a diploma and jobs that once needed a diploma now need a degee. (And people who would have got those jobs in the past, especially the no-quals jobs, and done them very well are struggling to sit in classrooms and pass - and if they don't pass they don't get the jobs they would be very good at - so they sit on the dole .. The system, at that level, just kee3ps some teachers in jobs .. and achieves bugger all else .. )

There are inequities built into our system ... I am not sure if it is possible to have a system that is free of inequities - but they do exist in our system.

Now, I don't blame ALL failures on the system - people are just people and some fuck up and some make bad choice and some are lazy ... I agree with al that - but there are also inequities inherent in any system.

[Oscar]

Un like most of our jouno's he does not have to come up with stories daily, he is not working in an office where they are understaffed and put to a deadline; resulting in them becoming puppets of bloggers and politicians instead of taking the time to investigate facts and being independent

So printing innuendo and conjecture using stolen emails is investigation now, is it?

[Banditbandit]

So printing innuendo and conjecture using stolen emails is investigation now, is it?

It always has been - go back and read what Woodward and Bernstein did to remove an 'merikan president ... lying, cheating and stealing ..

As I used to teach my journalism students - "what are YOU prepared to do to get the story?"

Now - I'm not longer prepared to do al that crap to "get the story" ... so I no longer work in the industry (haven't for more than 20 years ) ..

[dinosaur]

So printing innuendo and conjecture using stolen emails is investigation now, is it?

You didn't read the book did you
That's just what you've heard on TV




I caught my ex cheating - hacked her emails and checked her phone, bloody glad I did. Not a good way to do things but sometimes when surrounded by this level of coruption and dirty shit - the cause justified the means

[Banditbandit]

You didn't read the book did you
That's just what you've heard on TV

If you have few expectations of people here, then you will not be disappointed ..

[Oscar]

You didn't read the book did you
That's just what you've heard on TV




I caught my ex cheating - hacked her emails and checked her phone, bloody glad I did. Not a good way to do things but sometimes when surrounded by this level of coruption and dirty shit - the cause justified the means

After I read Gordon Campbell's review, I would no more buy that book than I would bother looking at Whaleoil.
Campbell is a big fan of the book and Hager, yet in this paragraph he has to modifiy his statements six times to avoid libel.

One’s level of tolerance for this sort of thing will vary from reader to reader, but on the evidence presented by Hager, Key’s press officer Jason Ede played some part in the hacking and/or use of material hacked from the Labour Party’s computer system in election year 2011. On a regular basis, it also seems that Ede would contact Slater when an OIA request was about to be released to the media or to the Opposition parties; allegedly, Ede would invite Slater to lodge a request for the same information and then release it to Slater first, so that Slater could help to nullify the story. On another occasion, Ede allegedly primed Slater to request certain SIS secret documents, which were then speedily de-classified on the understanding that Slater would use them to humiliate Labour leader Phil Goff. Ede may also have assisted Slater with the framing of OIA requests in order to enable Slater to attack MFAT staff who were opposed to Foreign Minister Murray McCully’s programme of reforms at the Ministry. And so on.

Campbell then tried to justify the use of stolen emails as "whistle blowing", he says:

The motive is to disinfect politics, and to better inform the public about the nature of those people standing for re-election to higher office.

This is very noble on the face of it, but when put in context (five minutes before an election) it is also very cynical.

[dinosaur]

This is very noble on the face of it, but when put in context (five minutes before an election) it is also very cynical.

I agree - that does let the side down somewhat
Iwould've preferred to get rid of Collins a lot earlier

[Ocean1]

No - I disagree - it is harder now - especially as people have to pay their own tertiary education fees. Wasn't like that when I first went to tertiary education.

We have also made it harder by fetishizing qualifications, so now jobs people would have got, and done very well at, with no quals, now need a certificate. Jobs that once needed a certificate now need a diploma and jobs that once needed a diploma now need a degee. (And people who would have got those jobs in the past, especially the no-quals jobs, and done them very well are struggling to sit in classrooms and pass - and if they don't pass they don't get the jobs they would be very good at - so they sit on the dole .. The system, at that level, just kee3ps some teachers in jobs .. and achieves bugger all else .. )

There are inequities built into our system ... I am not sure if it is possible to have a system that is free of inequities - but they do exist in our system.

Now, I don't blame ALL failures on the system - people are just people and some fuck up and some make bad choice and some are lazy ... I agree with al that - but there are also inequities inherent in any system.

OK. The reason tertiary education is no longer "free" is that it resulted in a large number of people qualified to do no job anyone particularly wanted done. Yes yes the world needs art history experts, but half a dozen is about it, not fucking hundreds of new ones every year who's only hope of gainful employment is making more of the same.

Fuck that.


And if you can see that it now takes an order of magnitude higher qualification to gain entry to a particular job then why can't you see that it's because the qualifications in question produce applicants an order of magnitude less capable of doing that job. What they've been taught has been significantly depreciated by tertiary institutions providing as little as possible for the fees they're paid. If you doubt that try putting exams from 30 years ago in front of modern graduates.


Inequities. Yup, there'll always be some. But as long as you address most of the inequities of opportunity and as long as you restrain yourself from fucking with so called inequities of outcome then you'll be as close to "fair" as it's possible to be.

What threatens that currently is unprincipled vote buying aimed solely at gaining power by giving the lowest 51% producing citizens more than they earn by taking it off the 49% highest producing citizens.

And you know what? In spite of the huge disincentive for citizens to bother producing much that imposes the most productive will still be the most productive. Change the rules all you like, "equify" outcomes as much as you like, and those that overachieve will continue to do just that, and those that can't be fucked will still be "disadvantaged".

[oldrider]

Anything "free" simply means that someone else is paying for it, in our case, the taxpayers!

Why should people be robbed at gun point and made to pay for something that "They" don't want and will never use or participate in anyway!

Enter ... "user pays" ... let those who want it ... pay for it!

Many professional service providers took the free education and then charged those who covered the cost through tax ... through the bloody nose for their service!

Simplistic but that was the way the Labour government that brought in "user pays" explained it at the time!

[mashman]

...........

[Banditbandit]

I think we disagree less than we both think we do ...

OK. The reason tertiary education is no longer "free" is that it resulted in a large number of people qualified to do no job anyone particularly wanted done. Yes yes the world needs art history experts, but half a dozen is about it, not fucking hundreds of new ones every year who's only hope of gainful employment is making more of the same.

Fuck that.

Yeah - I can't disagree with that - and the six art historians would all be members of the British Royal Family or their retired soviet spies!!! there are certainly a lot of people qualified in garbage (my Bachelors degree is in Religious Studies ... I could probably be one of them ...)

But I also think that education is a social good ... yes there are personal benefits, but much greater social benefits .. and while it may never be possible to provide completely free education loading graduates with huge debt BEFORE they even start work makes an impossible situation ...

And the fact that they do not pay it back indicates that it is effectively free anyway and the loan is simply an accounting exercise.

And if you can see that it now takes an order of magnitude higher qualification to gain entry to a particular job then why can't you see that it's because the qualifications in question produce applicants an order of magnitude less capable of doing that job. What they've been taught has been significantly depreciated by tertiary institutions providing as little as possible for the fees they're paid. If you doubt that try putting exams from 30 years ago in front of modern graduates.

Hmm - I certainly put in front of my students exams similar to ones of thirty years ago ... I'm not convinced that standards have dropped - that's the complaint of every generation abo the next generation - our parents certainly said it about our generation ... (tho' I was stunned and dismayed to be told yesterday that some students entering a post-graduate programme could not write properly, let alone write well ... How the fuck did they graduate at bachelors level let alone get accepted into post-grad!!! Strong words were said and action wil be taken ...) ... fuck knows .. maybe you're right ... (I really hope not or we're all fucked ...)

Inequities. Yup, there'll always be some. But as long as you address most of the inequities of opportunity and as long as you restrain yourself from fucking with so called inequities of outcome then you'll be as close to "fair" as it's possible to be.

Yeah - I get that - I'm interested in equities of opportunity - there is no such thing as equities of outcomes - that's up to people's individual choice .. you can lead a horse .. etc ... as long as there is water there, then the horse can do what it likes .. and accept the consequences ..

What threatens that currently is unprincipled vote buying aimed solely at gaining power by giving the lowest 51% producing citizens more than they earn by taking it off the 49% highest producing citizens.

Hmmm .. I am certainly in favour of having a safety net to assist people who need it - and I'm especially concerned about the effect of poverty on the children of the poor ... I do not see anything wrong with a little income redistribution to help that ... But I don't see benefits as a lifestyle, except for the old ...

And you know what? In spite of the huge disincentive for citizens to bother producing much that imposes the most productive will still be the most productive. Change the rules all you like, "equify" outcomes as much as you like, and those that overachieve will continue to do just that, and those that can't be fucked will still be "disadvantaged".

I don't accept equities of outcomes as anything real - I'm with you - I will not accept that argument .. and yes, there will always be high achievers and underachievers (I'm probably more in the latter than the former .. but then I don't see that sort of achievement as worthwhile - no critique of others - I'd just rather be a drop out and go fishing - but I need to work to pay for the boat and the fuel and the bikes .. hookers (sorry, high maintenance women ...) )

People HAVE to have the freedom to choose .. and the opportunity to put their choices into practise (except bludging - no excuse for bludging .... that's not a valid choice ...)

[dinosaur]

Inequities. Yup, there'll always be some. But as long as you address most of the inequities of opportunity and as long as you restrain yourself from fucking with so called inequities of outcome then you'll be as close to "fair" as it's possible to be.

What threatens that currently is unprincipled vote buying aimed solely at gaining power by giving the lowest 51% producing citizens more than they earn by taking it off the 49% highest producing citizens.

I think we disagree less than we both think we do ...
I'm especially concerned about the effect of poverty on the children of the poor ... I do not see anything wrong with a little income redistribution to help that ... But I don't see benefits as a lifestyle, except for the old ...
People HAVE to have the freedom to choose .. and the opportunity to put their choices into practise (except bludging - no excuse for bludging .... that's not a valid choice ...)

So you're both voting NZ First this election?