Braided lines, are 2 better than 1?

[Grubber]

Getting upset isn't going to change the laws of fluid mechanics.

Me upset??? Take more than you tiger.
My point is, that you have a lot to say without actually saying anything of any use.
Try telling us all what you think you know, might be worth a listen....or not!

[Grubber]

Educate yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_law

Oh and this actually doesn't take into account the lines that may or not be expandable. Hence why we use braided lines.

[Mike.Gayner]

Just stop. You're making an ass of yourself.

[imdying]

Oh and this actually doesn't take into account the lines that may or not be expandable. Hence why we use braided lines.

Yes, it does. If the lines were to expand, the pressure drop in the system would be the same everywhere.

Pressure exerted anywhere in a confined incompressible fluid is transmitted equally in all directions throughout the fluid such that the pressure variations remain the same

Which part are you having trouble with?

[Katman]

Oh and this actually doesn't take into account the lines that may or not be expandable. Hence why we use braided lines.

But that's not what you were initially suggesting.

You were suggesting that two lengths of braided line from the master cylinder to the calipers would exert greater pressure than an arrangement of shorter braided hoses.

As many have pointed out to you, the laws of fluid mechanics proves you wrong.

[Erelyes]

One line to each is spot on. Brakes will feel harder with less foce needed on handle

For a split second upon brake application (or upon squeezing harder), you're expanding the lines with the force applied as well as expanding the pistons; however you can be sure that once the lines reach their limit of expansion, the full force is then applied to the calipers. As such - any change to the lines will only reduce the latency between application of force on the lever, and that force being applied to the caliper pistons.

The brakes may 'feel' harder, but this is an illusion caused by decreased lever travel. Your brain goes - I'm braking the same yet the lever doesn't travel as far, the brakes must be better - right?!

Reducing latency is probably quite nice, making them more 'responsive' or 'feel' better, but ultimately you can brake just as well either way.

Now play nicely

[Grubber]

For a split second upon brake application (or upon squeezing harder), you're expanding the lines with the force applied as well as expanding the pistons; however you can be sure that once the lines reach their limit of expansion, the full force is then applied to the calipers. As such - any change to the lines will only reduce the latency between application of force on the lever, and that force being applied to the caliper pistons.

The brakes may 'feel' harder, but this is an illusion caused by decreased lever travel. Your brain goes - I'm braking the same yet the lever doesn't travel as far, the brakes must be better - right?!

Reducing latency is probably quite nice, making them more 'responsive' or 'feel' better, but ultimately you can brake just as well either way.

Now play nicely

I would agree with that. The expansion is the last bit of extreme i guess. Not sure how you would describe. Brakes are generally fine with every day use but if you wanted perfect with no leftover, braided twin lines would be the shiz!

Nice to see someone with some half pie decent input, cheers for that.

[imdying]

if you wanted perfect with no leftover, braided twin lines would be the shiz!

Goodness, you're still as ignorant as when the thread began... no helping some I guess

[Premature Accelerato]

Being the original poster, I think I will just sit quietly in the corner :-)

[bogan]

Doug Hayes! Now retired i believe.
Theory... 1/ Direct lines provide better balance of pressure thus better feel.
2/ Easier to bleed and again no softness in feel.
3/Less pressure required for more braking.
As long as Master Cylinder and Calliper all matched correctly.
The actuals involved are minimal for some parts but for extreme top end, this was recommended.

Wouldn't be saying that 1 split line isn't adequate but 2 is even better.
When i did mine under this recommendation it was certainly a lot better.

1/ only if there is restriction in the lines which could cause a pressure buildup (in a functional braking system there are no such restrictions).
2/ easier to bleed, but more softness in feel due to additional line length available for expansion
3/ completely false, piston pressure is related only to master cyl diameter and brake piston diameter (assuming functional braking system again)

Oh and this actually doesn't take into account the lines that may or not be expandable. Hence why we use braided lines.

The implementation of that rule must take that into account, through pressure/volume changes, it is a trivial matter if you know the force/expansion curve of the tube. It is indeed why we use braided lines.

I would agree with that. The expansion is the last bit of extreme i guess. Not sure how you would describe. Brakes are generally fine with every day use but if you wanted perfect with no leftover, braided twin lines would be the shiz!

Wrong, more line length is more expansion, minimising line length and using the most rigid lines will give the best feel.
Think about it, which takes longer to build up pressure, blowing up one balloon at a time, or blowing up two balloons at once?

[bogan]

Being the original poster, I think I will just sit quietly in the corner :-)

Nah mate, sit in two corners at once, you'll be twice as quiet

[imdying]

2/ easier to bleed, but more softness in feel due to additional line length available for expansion

Even that is hogwash, either system is easy enough to bleed given correct technique... and using anything else doesn't make a lick of sense.

[bogan]

Even that is hogwash, either system is easy enough to bleed given correct technique... and using anything else doesn't make a lick of sense.

*given correct technique; now how likely do you think a guy who reckons tube size changes pressure is to use correct technique... or lick anything other than windows?

[Drew]

Getting upset isn't going to change the laws of fluid mechanics.

I would have said "fluid dynamics", but there's no reason to think that makes it correct.

*given correct technique; now how likely do you think a guy who reckons tube size changes pressure is to use correct technique... or lick anything other than windows?

Fuck ya! I wanted to use the window licker bit.

If anyone could feel the difference between one meter of braided line versus two, they should be riding a fucken GP bike and getting paid handsomely for their efforts.

Line expansion on even OEM rubber lines is minimal to the extreme, they just break down faster and are less efficient in radiating the heat from the fluid.

I have never seen a rule about race bikes that suggests individual lines are mandatory. If they were required, it should also be a requirement to have "fuses" (look them up, they're uuuber fucken cool) as close to the master as possible.

[Katman]

I would have said "fluid dynamics".....

A sub-group of fluid mechanics.