2014/2015 LAMS options?

[frisken]

One thing to consider with the de-restricting is you legally need to have the bike re-registered as a non-LAMS model. This is apparently costly, and then you lose value on it no longer being a LAMS bike. You then have to reverse the process to chuck it back as a LAMS bike when you want to resell ... At least, that's what I've heard (from a few Aussie riders).

Brief update: Took the Honda CB500F for a big ride today, as this was still high on my list. Fucking loved it, that bike is seriously cool. The only thing that bike doesn't have is the same power as the other, bigger 660 bikes. This is pretty worrying, as even during my ride I felt the thrill of the added power start to wear out. Very aware of getting bored of the bike too quick. But other than this fact (which is a pretty big one) the bike was phenomenal. Great road presence, superb handling, nice power curve, tight suspension and great breaks. Ticked all the boxes minus the raw power.

Really didn't love the MT-07, has anyone else ridden them at all? I'm worried the demo I took out was a little quirky in itself. The shift between 3rd and 4th gear was huge and was really unsettling. Always felt like I needed a gear in-between. Upshifting left me outside of the power range and it slugged a little, and shifting down really jolted with engine breaking. The throttle was also really loose (jiggled left/right) and made my right hand feel a bit uneasy. Anyone else have any experience with these? Should I look elsewhere for a demo ride?

Thanks again for all the tips guys, hopefully this thread helps anyone else looking into this market.

[TheDemonLord]

One thing to consider with the de-restricting is you legally need to have the bike re-registered as a non-LAMS model. This is apparently costly, and then you lose value on it no longer being a LAMS bike. You then have to reverse the process to chuck it back as a LAMS bike when you want to resell ... At least, that's what I've heard (from a few Aussie riders).

I have read that too - but no links to anything official (like the NZTA or a Govt website) and only from Australians.

I think once I get my full, I will actually make some inquiries to the NZTA on this - I suspect it will be a case of tell your insurance company, and leave the bike registered as a LAMS bike

[Smartie]

I have read that too - but no links to anything official (like the NZTA or a Govt website) and only from Australians.

I think once I get my full, I will actually make some inquiries to the NZTA on this - I suspect it will be a case of tell your insurance company, and leave the bike registered as a LAMS bike

I have recently bought an ER650L LAMS bike and the on rego documents I have, it does not specifically call it a LAMS bike. It is only a LAMS bike because it is on the list as a LAMS bike and has not been modified to exceed the LAMS spec.

My take on this in NZ is that that as a learner/restricted you have to ride a bike that complies and if you are caught by some means, through accident, police etc., then you will suffer demerits, loss of insurance (probably life/disability insurance to if it is that serious). As a rider on a full licence there is nothing stopping you derestricting the bike, as both you and the bike are compliant. Even Hyosung offer it as a service (at a cost) .It doesn’t say the bike has to be re regoed. If you sell the bike, placing the restrictions back makes it LAMS approved again and any leaner can ride it.

The NZTA site says
“Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list.
If you are a rider on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence, it is your responsibility to ensure you are riding a LAMS-approved motorcycle, as produced by the manufacturer. If in doubt, seek confirmation from the manufacturer's agent or dealership. If you are unsure who to contact, details for all major motorcycle importers are available on the Motor Industry Association website . Failure to comply with the new rules may result in fines and demerit points.”

The NZTA LAMS FAQ pamphlet also says
“What if a motorcycle is on the list and has been modified in a way that has increased its power-to-weight ratio?
Any motorcycle that has been modified to increase its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-complaint and must not be ridden on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence. “
“Can I de-restrict my LAMS-approved motorcycle?
Any modification which increases the power of a motorcycle makes it no longer LAMS compliant. If you increase the power of an approved motorcycle and ride it while you are on a class 6 learner or restricted licence, you would be failing to comply with your license requirements and may be fined.”

the NZTA does not say you have to reregister when derestricting nor does it say that you cannot re restrict the bike back to LAMS compliancy when selling or being ridden by a learners licence holder. Obviously when derestricted it is not LAMS compliant. The NZTA talk only about the bike ridden when you have a specific type of licence, not about the bike itself. As long as it complies when you are riding it with learners/restricted.

Again this is my take on this

BTW I am loving the bike as a LAMS unit. Plenty of power, great handling, and good riding position for a leaner- all whilst still LAMS compliant

[GrayWolf]

One thing to consider with the de-restricting is you legally need to have the bike re-registered as a non-LAMS model. This is apparently costly, and then you lose value on it no longer being a LAMS bike. You then have to reverse the process to chuck it back as a LAMS bike when you want to resell ... At least, that's what I've heard (from a few Aussie riders).

Brief update: Took the Honda CB500F for a big ride today, as this was still high on my list. Fucking loved it, that bike is seriously cool. The only thing that bike doesn't have is the same power as the other, bigger 660 bikes. This is pretty worrying, as even during my ride I felt the thrill of the added power start to wear out. Very aware of getting bored of the bike too quick. But other than this fact (which is a pretty big one) the bike was phenomenal. Great road presence, superb handling, nice power curve, tight suspension and great breaks. Ticked all the boxes minus the raw power.

Really didn't love the MT-07, has anyone else ridden them at all? I'm worried the demo I took out was a little quirky in itself. The shift between 3rd and 4th gear was huge and was really unsettling. Always felt like I needed a gear in-between. Upshifting left me outside of the power range and it slugged a little, and shifting down really jolted with engine breaking. The throttle was also really loose (jiggled left/right) and made my right hand feel a bit uneasy. Anyone else have any experience with these? Should I look elsewhere for a demo ride?

Thanks again for all the tips guys, hopefully this thread helps anyone else looking into this market.

OK, so you think you'll get bored? with the Honda, so, following THAT logic, give you a ZX14 or 'busa.. You'll be bored in a short while?
The CC rating of 660cc has far less to do with the perceived power delivery, or how its delivered. I can pretty much assure you the Honda will be quicker up top than the 660's. The 650/660's are Singles of around 45bhp, and reasonable low down torque. There are a few 650 LAMS approved multi's as well. The Honda's a twin, so will be a sort of midway point, 4 cyl's WILL give a better 'rush' of power up top.
IF the Honda ticks ALL the REAL important boxes as you state, it's a no brainer surely? You seem to think that power is SO important, as a learner or 'newer' rider, a good easy going, predictable, undaunting bike is THE correct one really. Hence why you'll see experienced riders say the GN250 is one of the ideal totally NEW rider bikes, easy going, etc, etc.

The high performance 250's as an example really were never intended as 'learner bikes', ridden well they can give ANY 'big bike' a severe 'curry up' on the twisties. If you look at the KR1 RG 250's, they were 'all but' as quick on top end as the original 'master blaster' Z1-900. Quicker than any of the old 500-4's, 500-2cyls etc of the 1970/1980's, including quicker up top than the RD400, LC350's.< which were the Hoon's bike of choice in the day. (only 500's that were quicker for top end at the time was the H1's till the RG400/5000, RD500)

Buy the Honda, and enjoy it, if you truly think you'll get bored with it's power? I would in all seriousness say 'adjust' your attitude to power requirements. This 'lust for power' was started with the H1, H2, Z1 which were affordable 'rocketships' of their day. The Z1 has ONLY 85bhp, and was considered 'overpowered' at the time... Bike 'genetics' have improved exponentially since, but the 'species' twisting the throttle's genetics have not advanced one iota in that same time period..

[Ender EnZed]

You might also want to look at the KTM Duke 390 or, if you can wait a few months, the RC390. Down a few cc on what you're looking at but by all accounts they go pretty well.

[frisken]

OK, so you think you'll get bored? with the Honda, so, following THAT logic, give you a ZX14 or 'busa.. You'll be bored in a short while?
The CC rating of 660cc has far less to do with the perceived power delivery, or how its delivered. I can pretty much assure you the Honda will be quicker up top than the 660's. The 650/660's are Singles of around 45bhp, and reasonable low down torque. There are a few 650 LAMS approved multi's as well. The Honda's a twin, so will be a sort of midway point, 4 cyl's WILL give a better 'rush' of power up top.
IF the Honda ticks ALL the REAL important boxes as you state, it's a no brainer surely? You seem to think that power is SO important, as a learner or 'newer' rider, a good easy going, predictable, undaunting bike is THE correct one really. Hence why you'll see experienced riders say the GN250 is one of the ideal totally NEW rider bikes, easy going, etc, etc.

The high performance 250's as an example really were never intended as 'learner bikes', ridden well they can give ANY 'big bike' a severe 'curry up' on the twisties. If you look at the KR1 RG 250's, they were 'all but' as quick on top end as the original 'master blaster' Z1-900. Quicker than any of the old 500-4's, 500-2cyls etc of the 1970/1980's, including quicker up top than the RD400, LC350's.< which were the Hoon's bike of choice in the day. (only 500's that were quicker for top end at the time was the H1's till the RG400/5000, RD500)

Buy the Honda, and enjoy it, if you truly think you'll get bored with it's power? I would in all seriousness say 'adjust' your attitude to power requirements. This 'lust for power' was started with the H1, H2, Z1 which were affordable 'rocketships' of their day. The Z1 has ONLY 85bhp, and was considered 'overpowered' at the time... Bike 'genetics' have improved exponentially since, but the 'species' twisting the throttle's genetics have not advanced one iota in that same time period..

You get me all wrong. I'm hardly talking about trading it all in for a Fireblade purely for power here, I'm talking about the longevity of a machine I'm going to be spending upwards of $10,000 on in keeping me both entertained and providing me the abilities to grow more experienced for a longer period of time. No LAMS option is going to offer the greatest amount of power out there -- but there are ones that excite more than others, offering more usable power for specific riding styles.

To say that power doesn't matter on a bike is just stupid. No, I'm not some squid heading out to buy a Hayabusa, I am a guy who's been riding for 3+ years who is looking for the next step in my biking journey. If power doesn't matter I would be perfectly happy on a GN250, or Ninja 300 as both of these bikes are great for what they were made to do. But neither of these bikes fulfil my requirements. As shallow as it sounds, I am looking for a bike with more power; otherwise I'd be keeping my 250.

Now, the Honda was great. All I'm saying is that the Triumph (and some of the others) felt to have more usable power, and I felt like there was room to grow into these machines more so than the Honda.

You might also want to look at the KTM Duke 390 or, if you can wait a few months, the RC390. Down a few cc on what you're looking at but by all accounts they go pretty well.

Cheers dude, yeah I'm quite keen on taking out the RC390. Looks like a great machine, and I'd be interested in seeing how a 400 delivers on the open road (commuting on a highway etc). Have you had a good look into these yourself?

[BlackSheepLogic]

I'm not some squid heading out to buy a Hayabusa

Quite judgmental for someone claiming to know little about bikes. The reasons behind the choice of a bike are many and come down to needs as well as wants. Bikes like the busa or ZX14R serve a purpose and maybe the bike of choice for a rider regardless of experience. The power & performance of these bikes is only one aspect and it does not define the the rider.

[Ender EnZed]

Cheers dude, yeah I'm quite keen on taking out the RC390. Looks like a great machine, and I'd be interested in seeing how a 400 delivers on the open road (commuting on a highway etc). Have you had a good look into these yourself?

Not really but there have been a couple of threads about them on here.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...4-KTM-Duke-390
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...1867-Ktm-rc390

This suggests the Duke 390 puts out almost exactly the same peak power as the CB500 on a dyno but is 41kg lighter on the scales. That is a fucking massive difference.

[frisken]

Quite judgmental for someone claiming to know little about bikes. The reasons behind the choice of a bike are many and come down to needs as well as wants. Bikes like the busa or ZX14R serve a purpose and maybe the bike of choice for a rider regardless of experience. The power & performance of these bikes is only one aspect and it does not define the the rider.

I'm not saying that anyone who buys a Busa is a squid. I'm saying there are people who go and buy the fastest bike they possibly can without learning how to ride properly (squids).

Not really but there have been a couple of threads about them on here.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...4-KTM-Duke-390
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...1867-Ktm-rc390

This suggests the Duke 390 puts out almost exactly the same peak power as the CB500 on a dyno but is 41kg lighter on the scales. That is a fucking massive difference.

Awesome! Cheers dude. Will check them out, a place here has the 390 Duke demo I believe, so will have to give it a look.

[GrayWolf]

You get me all wrong. I'm hardly talking about trading it all in for a Fireblade purely for power here, I'm talking about the longevity of a machine I'm going to be spending upwards of $10,000 on in keeping me both entertained and providing me the abilities to grow more experienced for a longer period of time. No LAMS option is going to offer the greatest amount of power out there -- but there are ones that excite more than others, offering more usable power for specific riding styles.

To say that power doesn't matter on a bike is just stupid. No, I'm not some squid heading out to buy a Hayabusa, I am a guy who's been riding for 3+ years who is looking for the next step in my biking journey. If power doesn't matter I would be perfectly happy on a GN250, or Ninja 300 as both of these bikes are great for what they were made to do. But neither of these bikes fulfil my requirements. As shallow as it sounds, I am looking for a bike with more power; otherwise I'd be keeping my 250.

Now, the Honda was great. All I'm saying is that the Triumph (and some of the others) felt to have more usable power, and I felt like there was room to grow into these machines more so than the Honda.

?

OK after 40 years of riding I am stupid to say 'power doesnt matter'......

go back half a century and power was around 50-60BHP. I've owned/own fast powerful bikes, still have the ZZR 1100 which as I have pointed out is still 'plenty quick'. 'ONLY' has 135bhp. My current regular ride has 'ONLY' 90bhp but, 110ft lbs of torque... I owned an underpowered? XT660 Tenere which has 'ONLY' 45bhp, It still did 100-110kph cruising, had power to overtake, wasnt phased by hills, had more than enough acceleration for getting in front of traffic.

Torque is as important a factor in power delivery, as the dreaded oft quoted bhp figures. The high performance 250's have amazing BHP for the engine size, but you have to thrash the fuck out of them to get that performance. The XTZ 660, probably isnt as quick down the 1/4 mile, but for overtaking, you wont be playing tunes on the gearbox. Similar top speed performances though.
Sorry but your post came across as I WANT POWER! and your own words said you'd get bored with the Honda's power, which is as much as the old Brit 650's (50-60bhp) back then there was nothing more powerful. Even the popular modern take on the Bonnie has ONLY 60 odd bhp.

Maybe I'm an OLD FART. Accepted. : However I am more interested in a bike's roll on performance, how it handles 2 up (load/overtaking) etc etc. How it 'feels' to sit on (ergo's) and of course whether I like it.

Probably the best quote I can offer you is from an owners group.... BHP, how fast you hit the wall, Torque, how far you take it with you.

[Ender EnZed]

Torque is as important a factor in power delivery, as the dreaded oft quoted bhp figures. The high performance 250's have amazing BHP for the engine size, but you have to thrash the fuck out of them to get that performance. The XTZ 660, probably isnt as quick down the 1/4 mile, but for overtaking, you wont be playing tunes on the gearbox. Similar top speed performances though.
Sorry but your post came across as I WANT POWER! and your own words said you'd get bored with the Honda's power, which is as much as the old Brit 650's (50-60bhp) back then there was nothing more powerful.

I certainly didn't read that. All of the bikes he's looking at are LAMS models and built to be just under the 150kW/T limit. The peak powers are very similar and the difference he's feeling is torque and usable power throughout the rev range, which is what you're in favour of.

Unless you want him to buy a 50 year old Triumph.

[GrayWolf]

I certainly didn't read that. All of the bikes he's looking at are LAMS models and built to be just under the 150kW/T limit. The peak powers are very similar and the difference he's feeling is torque and usable power throughout the rev range, which is what you're in favour of.

Unless you want him to buy a 50 year old Triumph.

I wonder if the 650 Bonnie would be 'LAMS' approved?

[Ender EnZed]

I wonder if the 650 Bonnie would be 'LAMS' approved?

Well actually, the LAMS list does include all pre 1984 Triumphs up to 650cc.

[GrayWolf]

Well actually, the LAMS list does include all pre 1984 Triumphs up to 650cc.

Well there's an interesting idea.... Lets learner approve 'oddball' bikes with a right hand gear change! (650cc Triumph's etc)

Shame they didnt just use power/weight rather than a CC limit, the modern 750cc Guzzi's would probably fall into the power/weight category. Would be good learner machines as well.

[MisterD]

Shame they didnt just use power/weight rather than a CC limit, the modern 750cc Guzzi's would probably fall into the power/weight category. Would be good learner machines as well.

Once they're up and going maybe, the sheer weight of a bike at low speeds and dismounted is something that learners need to get used to as well.