Key Government out on its own. No one else to blame!

[Scuba_Steve]

But who the fuck cares about that shit right? We got more pressing issues to focus on like spending $30,000,000.00 on two stupid un-needed referendums because the PM thinks we should change our flag.

But only so you'll stop paying attention to that bloody "unimportant" TPPA document

[mada]

But only so you'll stop paying attention to that bloody "unimportant" TPPA document

From what I've read of TPPA draft it could have some pretty shit outcomes for NZ in terms of our Health System and Law making. But, I'm not so upset that it's done in secret, most trade agreements are - like FTA with China, until they go before Parliament and are ratified.

However, the major point of concern is that this government is smug as fuck and would be quite happy to ratify the TPPA and make it recognised under law through urgency in parliament like that have with many other pieces of contentious laws - meaning the public and everyone has limited submissions, say, or debate over it.

[puddytat]

What did you expect from John Key and the Nazional gummerment ???

Nothing more than their normal lying arrogant zionist/American agenda bullshit......I reckon its next big surprise will be allowing the Yanks to set up a base here for "our " own safety....

I 'spose every day longer in power the closer we get to revolution.

[Winston001]

Are there any organisations that are making a submission? This is quite a serious matter and needs a detailed response with explicit analysis...

What did you expect from John Key and the Nazional gummerment ???

So, didn't take long for the Key government to slip into full-on arrogance mode, did it?

Never let the facts get in the way of a blind rant lol.

The legislation has been passed in its first reading by MPs voting 107 Aye - 14 No.

Labour voted for it.

[Winston001]

.

National has been hugely successful, in PR bullshit spin....

The most classic example of their spin machine in action, the claim that NZ was under threat from the growing presence of gangs and gang members with the Police Minister using inflated numbers of gang associates to justify stupid laws and scare monger the public.

Agreed but that is because the Police are absolutely convinced that gangs are a major menace despite research showing gangs struggle to even exist. The politicians get told by the Police so the situation would be the same if Labour or Green were in govt.

.Our economy didders on because of the Christchurch Earthquake but has major holes:

A) too much money being wasted on the domestic housing sector, which needs to be encouraged to go into our productive economy through businesses and private enterprise rather than wanking and banking related to servicing mortgages for Australian owned banks.

Fair comment but let me ask you this - what are the alternative busineses that the average person could put money into? NZ doesn't have a good record of businesses surviving.

.B) Diversification of exports: The gamble on hedging most bets for dairying is going to slap us in the face like the Aussies recession which has been caused by a cool down in the Chinese economy and slow down in demand. Already dairy prices are flattening out at the same time the Chinese are investing in our tech to produce and supply themselves.

Wiser heads than you and I have worried about this problem since the 1973 oil shock. The ethos driving the 1984 Fourth Labour govt (Rogernomics) was diversification of the NZ economy. I was a believer - still am. But 30 years later our economy still relies upon what we do best. Food, timber, fish, and tourism.

If you have suggestions please share cos its got me stumped.

[mada]

Never let the facts get in the way of a blind rant lol.

The legislation has been passed in its first reading by MPs voting 107 Aye - 14 No.

Labour voted for it.

There are parts of the bill that need to be supported - ie suspension of passports if there is proof/evidence someone going overseas to fight. Which appears to be what Labour supports.

Other aspects of it are a joke, like SIS getting 48 hour surveillance powers to spy on anyone without need for warrant. Police are a far more competent organisation when it comes to a proactive terror response and already have sufficient powers to undertake search, surveillance, and detention.

John Key's speech that the govt. has evidence that people are fundraising and recruiting for ISIS makes one question, why the fuck aren't these people behind bars then if there is EVIDENCE as claimed and they pose a risk?? - Such activities are already illegal and the Police have the powers to arrest these people and lock them up with ISIS being on the NZ list of designated terror organisations.

The risk posed to NZ'ers domestically is so low it does not justify expansion of state powers which will most likely be used to spy on hippies protecting snails and dolphins.

[Scuba_Steve]

From what I've read of TPPA draft it could have some pretty shit outcomes for NZ in terms of our Health System and Law making. But, I'm not so upset that it's done in secret, most trade agreements are - like FTA with China, until they go before Parliament and are ratified.

However, the major point of concern is that this government is smug as fuck and would be quite happy to ratify the TPPA and make it recognised under law through urgency in parliament like that have with many other pieces of contentious laws - meaning the public and everyone has limited submissions, say, or debate over it.

Ratification means nothing, before it can even get to that stage it needs to be signed & once it's signed the Govt has to obey regardless of wether it get ratified here, so we're liable under international law regardless of outcome here

[mada]

Agreed but that is because the Police are absolutely convinced that gangs are a major menace despite research showing gangs struggle to even exist. The politicians get told by the Police so the situation would be the same if Labour or Green were in govt.

Fair comment but let me ask you this - what are the alternative busineses that the average person could put money into? NZ doesn't have a good record of businesses surviving.

Wiser heads than you and I have worried about this problem since the 1973 oil shock. The ethos driving the 1984 Fourth Labour govt (Rogernomics) was diversification of the NZ economy. I was a believer - still am. But 30 years later our economy still relies upon what we do best. Food, timber, fish, and tourism.

If you have suggestions please share cos its got me stumped.

I donno about the first part. From my understanding Police both the Organisation and staff through the Police Assoc have been giving the Govt. good word on the threat posed by Organised Crime (eg. increasing Corruption which we are seeing) and National rather than dealing with this through an inquiry or establishing an independent organisation to deal with it would rather keep the perception of "no corruption in NZ". The motorcycle gang shit came out of nowhere so appears more likely timed fear mongering at particular block of voters who like "hard on crime" punishments and are scared of anyone on a motorbike with tattoos.

You're right the business environment is complex, especially as we are such an isolated, but such a small market making it easy for monopolies, easy for importers versus domestic producers, but also difficult for our exporters. We've also become a country of short sighted cheap skates I feel - both business owners, and consumers. I just think that if housing or the demand for jobs in Auckland was rectified and not over inflated then people may be more inclined to pour money into and take the risks required to start and endure through having a business as they have more money (but less future security) to lose. Housing is not the sole area where reform is needed either - areas like tertiary education are biggies, where we are piling hundreds of millions into unnecessary courses just to get low paid jobs. If we are able to keep the costs of basics to a minimal (food, shelter, water) then can use the savings for everything else.

Business wise, I am all for doing what we do good - Dairy, Timber, Fish, Tourism, but we need to protect these industries from overseas take over (particularly from China) in both jobs, investment, and technology. We should be looking at things on a global scale and where we as a small nation can export products to fill upcoming demands - Babyboomer Health Care for example - through pharmaceuticals, robotics, etc. etc. Chinese pollution, imagine how much money we could make from technology and equipment that cleans up rivers, the air, etc.

I know I haven't really presented a solution, but I guess what I would like to see is a more self-sustained NZ with strong regions, rather than two or three areas of intensification, but one that thinks long term smart game, rather than short term quick buck.

[Winston001]

Good posts Mada, bling sent.

[Winston001]

From my understanding of Police both the Organisation and staff through the Police Assoc have been giving the Govt. good word on the threat posed by Organised Crime (eg. increasing Corruption which we are seeing) and National rather than dealing with this through an inquiry or establishing an independent organisation to deal with it would rather keep the perception of "no corruption in NZ".

The motorcycle gang shit came out of nowhere so appears more likely timed fear mongering at particular block of voters who like "hard on crime" punishments and are scared of anyone on a motorbike with tattoos.

The general public don't expect Parliament to set up expensive enquiries just to tell them that crime happens and sometimes the criminals are organised. That would be silly. As for motorcycle gangs, I thought they were insignificant and its Black Power and Asian triads whom the police are worried about.

You're right the business environment is complex, especially as we are such an isolated, but such a small market making it easy for monopolies, easy for importers versus domestic producers, but also difficult for our exporters.

I just think that if housing or the demand for jobs in Auckland was rectified and not over inflated then people may be more inclined to pour money into and take the risks required to start and endure through having a business as they have more money (but less future security) to lose.

...areas like tertiary education are biggies, where we are piling hundreds of millions into unnecessary courses just to get low paid jobs.

I'm involved in tertiary education these days and can tell you that the government has been withdrawing from flower arranging courses in a big way. I sort of agree but man does not live by bread alone. There is a place in education for fine arts, photography, interior design, and drama etc. Sod all jobs but we need imaginitive people.

If you asked the general population I'd guess that courses on economics (they never get it right), political studies, and philosophy would be dumped. And we'd be poorer for it.

As for monopolies NZ is a very small country and for some products it makes no business sense to have lots of competitors. After the 1998 electricity market reforms when the generation, lines, and supply was splintered, exactly how much better off are we as a nation? It was nonsense.

We need one govt owned organisation to generate and deliver power with the freedom for others to experiment if they wish. At the moment Contact spills water and Mighty River(?) burns oil both pushing electrons into the same market. A single operator would hold dam storage across the country and use geothermal in a drought.

Soz - just my hobby horse.

[Brian d marge]

on the plus side its good to see people waking up

hopefully not to late and . . something may be done to take back control of the country

as for wellington
ask yourself . . why

why are none of the parties standing up to be counted

removing privatisation
publically opposing the tpp
greens say they are but can you hear their shouts , .no nor can i

so there must be a bigger game afoot . .imf ???

i mean look at the rbnz . . who did they put in charge

the nice mr wheeler . . . . and his boss at the world bank

that lovely mr wolfowitch
and can tell me there is no smoke without fire . . . . tui

the solutions to fix this mess

Ill start

remove gst from fresh fruit and vegetables

state housws pegged at 30% of income

fk them , . wheres me knitting



tapped out in phone so cannot eloborate . . .pain in the arse typing on this thing

[Ocean1]

why are none of the parties standing up to be counted

They all stood up to be counted.

National won. By a veritable shitload.

Which don't mean everyone's happy with all of their work. Just that they're less happy with any of the alternatives. Yours included.

[avgas]

But 30 years later our economy still relies upon what we do best. Food, timber, fish, and tourism.

Come again? Tech is our 3rd biggest industry export.
Things have changed since 1984. Rakon, Xero, F&P Healthcare just to name 3. But there are 1000's more like em.
http://www.nztech.org.nz/Category?Ac...Category_id=40

[Banditbandit]

From what I've read of TPPA draft it could have some pretty shit outcomes for NZ in terms of our Health System and Law making. But, I'm not so upset that it's done in secret, most trade agreements are - like FTA with China, until they go before Parliament and are ratified.

However, the major point of concern is that this government is smug as fuck and would be quite happy to ratify the TPPA and make it recognised under law through urgency in parliament like that have with many other pieces of contentious laws - meaning the public and everyone has limited submissions, say, or debate over it.

That prick DonKey is selling our sovereignty in exchange for MONEY !!!! (Trade deal to make more money) Once it's agree his shit government will ram it through and then we are fucked - we will be part of the 'Merikan economic domination and will have permenantly lost control of our own country. Maybe then people wil wake up - but it will be too late ..

Labour voted for it.

I didn't vote for those stupid fuckers either ..

Ratification means nothing, before it can even get to that stage it needs to be signed & once it's signed the Govt has to obey regardless of whether it get ratified here, so we're liable under international law regardless of outcome here

Yeah - we're fucked .. lost our sovereignty ...

[mashman]

Yeah - we're fucked .. lost our sovereignty ...

Resigned to defeat already eh It's nothing that can't be taken back mind.