Key Government out on its own. No one else to blame!

[unstuck]

The soils are not the reason for irrigation, the lack of rainfall is.

Maybe the dairy farmers should fuck off to places with more rainfall then, like the west coast.

[husaberg]

Maybe the dairy farmers should fuck off to places with more rainfall then, like the west coast.

Sure if only we could get rid of that 85% national park we could fit a few more in.
I would say the West Coast is about 90% Dairy now.
Just as an aside we actually have quite a few Centre pivots now and more farms are irrigated than not in the upper Grey Valley.
Us Coasters have also opened a dairy factory in Canterbury to tap into cheap Canterbury land.

[Brian d marge]

Dairying is not government driven it is driven by being the best returns, So at best driven by the banks.
The farms are sold because the farm is either uneconomic or the farmer is going to retire.
The system of succession passing the farm on to the next generation is no longer commonly happening as frequently as the farmer has not made the same amount of money from farming but has had to rely on capital gains in land price.
If the economies were there to continue the land use then the land use would not change.

Unfortunately the roads will only get worse as the levies from the road user charges are not going to the councils now.
If sheep farmers could afford irrigation they would do it. as for depressing look at the returns for wool and long term for lamb.

Re the DDT only problem there is if those soils were as porous as everyone is making them out to be it should would be in your water by now.
The DDT was however driven by the government farm advisors it used to be spread with the Superphospate.
As for the Plains aquifers not being deep really 70 meters is deep, My old place was only about 2.5 meters and pure as te driven snow and my new place is 7.6 meters and full of iron.
Water schemes are generally not that popular with those affected by them weather they be for power generation or for irrigation anyway.
But Canterbury has a long history of them.

So the cost of farming. .... the overheads are rising possibly due to higher land prices driven by Zero interest or cashed up foreigners and equipment to meet rules and Regs
P/e Ratio of the different farms would be interesting . - -
In order to meet overheads a non sustainable farming Model is the most effective method ... ?
It's Interesting to note the Same old boogie men come up again and again . . . Banks and the government and to a greater or lesser degree the Council

lots of food for thought

[unstuck]

Sure if only we could get rid of that 85% national park we could fit a few more in.
I would say the West Coast is about 90% Dairy now.

Luckily they are all north of fox, I have some good saws, maybe we could make a start on decreasing the size of the park. There would be some good firewood in there.

[husaberg]

So the cost of farming. .... the overheads are rising possibly due to higher land prices driven by Zero interest or cashed up foreigners and equipment to meet rules and Regs
P/e Ratio of the different farms would be interesting . - -
In order to meet overheads a non sustainable farming Model is the most effective method ... ?
It's Interesting to note the Same old boogie men come up again and again . . . Banks and the government and to a greater or lesser degree the Council

lots of food for thought

Overheads are rising with compliance and margins by retailers and dividing up the single seller plus having to compete with susidies and tariffs.
The land price drives the use of the land as it gets more expensive other forms of farming don't stack up with the required returns.
The farming is sustainable conversely organics is unsustainable.
We supply 35% of the worlds internationally traded Dairy products.

[blue rider]

ouch
http://liberation.typepad.com/libera...ucinagate.html

cartoon and images of the last couple of days

[Brian d marge]

Overheads are rising with compliancece and margins by retailers and dividing up the single seller plus having to compete with susidies and tariffs.
The land price drives the use of the land as it gets more expensive other forms of farming don't stack up with the required returns.
The farming is sustainable conversely organics is unsustainable.
We supply 35% of the worlds internationally traded Dairy products.

I remember a tv show
or Radio show where Some SKUMMY hippys and a farmer went head to head growing cotton
the farmer won of coarse
But
Ive always felt that the comp was well wrong
kinda like 2 Weight lifters
one on Modern steroids
the other healthy diet
now if the hippies Could had have a Perma Culture which is how nature is supposed to work anyway they may have won.
There are some very Successful farmers operating under a Perma Culture system . - - - The land is a Success very Well done in fact
not So sure about the bank Mangers point of View though

[husaberg]

I remember a tv show
or Radio show where Some SKUMMY hippys and a farmer went head to head growing cotton
the farmer won of coarse
But
Ive always felt that the comp was well wrong
kinda like 2 Weight lifters
one on Modern steroids
the other healthy diet
now if the hippies Could had have a Perma Culture which is how nature is supposed to work anyway they may have won.
There are some very Successful farmers operating under a Perma Culture system . - - - The land is a Success very Well done in fact
not So sure about the bank Mangers point of View though

If it produced better margins more would be doing it organics and permaculture are a healthy niche until it becomes the norm that is, Supply and demand.
There is a lot to be said for both living and operating within your sustainable means.
Trouble is without sustainable profits there will be no more farmers, Its pretty hard to feed yourself let alone the world on capital gains alone.

[Ocean1]

If it produced better margins more would be doing it organics and permaculture are a healthy niche until it becomes the norm that is, Supply and demand.
There is a lot to be said for both living and operating within your sustainable means.
Trouble is without sustainable profits there will be no more farmers, Its pretty hard to feed yourself let alone the world on capital gains alone.

Aye. To some extent most of the various flavours of environmentalism are, at heart simply vehicles for misanthropy.

And whatever the driving factors, let's have some more of the same, eh?: http://ourworldindata.org/data/food-...e/food-prices/

[MisterD]

cartoon and images of the last couple of days

Hilarious, the usual deranged lefties have piled in en masse...and National go up in the polls.

[Brian d marge]

Aye. To some extent most of the various flavours of environmentalism are, at heart simply vehicles for misanthropy.

And whatever the driving factors, let's have some more of the same, eh?: http://ourworldindata.org/data/food-...e/food-prices/

Lots good info in that site if ya dig

[Brian d marge]

If it produced better margins more would be doing it organics and permaculture are a healthy niche until it becomes the norm that is, Supply and demand.
There is a lot to be said for both living and operating within your sustainable means.
Trouble is without sustainable profits there will be no more farmers, Its pretty hard to feed yourself let alone the world on capital gains alone.

From an old hippy friend of mine . . .organic farmer . . Large scale until her heart attack now she grows lavender from her quad bike and at 75 shes she shows no sign of slowing down
. ,
Any hooo her opinion . .,
Snip
Sounds like the Christmas Grouch without any real knowledge or experience of organics. Its been proven.The more organics gets established the more economic it becomes. Sustainability, soil life and health, can be projected further and further into the future for future generations. The more there is a consumer/producer relationship so there comes an understanding of an honest day's pay for an honest day's work. It costs about the same per acre to exhaust and poison the land as it does to farm organically. The unsustainable farmer spends and spends on artificial fertilizers and poisonous sprays. At first the organic grower uses more labour and pays to get useful cycles established. As time goes on the crops become more and more productive so increasingly profitable returns can be projected to exceed our 'artificial' equivalent grower. But all this and much more has been proven time and time again. There are flat earthers still. There are many who get a sort of life out of denying climate change. There are those who, in a superior way, outline organics as 'unsustainable'. Or taking charge demand proof. That is not my job. My job is to tell about what a wonderful life working in various ways in organics is. Just reminder; men in urban environments around the world like in places like London and Auckland have half the sperm count of a generation ago. Men on organic farms have twice the number of wrigglers with them being twice as healthy. So where is all the pollution going to? Straight to your ..... So good luck with that.

[Winston001]

I'm picking this Ponytail fiasco is the final straw for John Key. Its ironic that such a banal and insignificant story could lead to a Prime Minister chucking in his job but politics is a strange place. Perception is all. Helen Clark was widely castigated over the Paintergate saga when all she did was help out to support a charity. Unfair but we are a fickle public.

My guess is the PM and Bronagh have had a serious talk and decided there are better ways to enjoy life than being questioned about ponytails. His own fault: however compare him to Len Brown and the filthy Silvio Berlusconi, both of whom refused to resign.

Anyway I reckon a few weeks will pass while the senior Nats scrabble about and then he'll resign.

[friday]

Roger Douglas fell back into parliament simply to get GST up to 15% and what ever other tax avoidance laws thru, then he left , no reason to be there.

John Lazar is in there to open this place up and then hell leave , no other reason to be there .

chinese have bought large tracts of land , dairy farms and forestry to make profit . they need water so Gov has to deliver

all those trees going over seas is our top soil . the chinese dont need nz farmers , nz milk or nz meat , they have their own right here in nz.

reminds me of pete mcD in te puke who sold off kiwi fruit plants over seas , out come was they grew their own and nz kiwi took a dive.

labour in the 1980s ditched the Treason laws so that they could sell off state assets = legalised larceny

we dont vote governments in , we only vote for representitives . public servants whoever and how ever many have got "jobs" for life and those bastards dont get voted in

ahhhh rant .......

[Brian d marge]

I'm picking this Ponytail fiasco is the final straw for John Key. Its ironic that such a banal and insignificant story could lead to a Prime Minister chucking in his job but politics is a strange place. Perception is all. Helen Clark was widely castigated over the Paintergate saga when all she did was help out to support a charity. Unfair but we are a fickle public.

My guess is the PM and Bronagh have had a serious talk and decided there are better ways to enjoy life than being questioned about ponytails. His own fault: however compare him to Len Brown and the filthy Silvio Berlusconi, both of whom refused to resign.

Anyway I reckon a few weeks will pass while the senior Nats scrabble about and then he'll resign.

Tis what I said in another post in another forum a while back

I wonder who the next prime minister will be
I mean you want someone who toes the line follows American go outside interests or Chinese interests

You probably get lots of rhetoric about time for the people and we've got to reduce the debt and then when they get in hello company with money how high should I jump

I wonder what the media spin on the next government will be