New Zealand. What a back water shit hole.

[pritch]

Point is - if all we do is send them to prison, let them out, wait for them to re-offend (which with our recidivism rates is quite likely) then send them back etc. etc. - what is the point?

The point is that while they are locked up they can't commit crimes. Well OK, they can commit crimes against each other but...

A number of people have told me, "They don't learn anything in prison". I'd answer that by saying you go to school to learn, you go to prison to be locked up. If these people followed the KISS principle they'd be less confused.

A thought on the "soft" nature of our prisons - military prisons are much less comfortable than civilian prisons. Get off the transport looking staunch and you get an uppercut right there and then - true story. I'm not totally up to date but in one system there was no TV and the only reading material was a bible - if you requested one. On arrival you were presented a tin of boot polish and a tin of Brasso, first job was remove all the paint off both tins and polish them. Another regime had prisoners filling sandbags in the tropical sun to a predetermined rate. At "smoko" time new prisoners got to stand to attention in the sun for 10 minutes. Whichever regime, the specialty is making you work hard at something, usually something that is utterly pointless. Polish barbed wire. Dig a hole - fill it in. Basically whatever they can dream up that will piss you off.

Because they are so much harder than a civilian prison the maximum term in a military prison was six months.

And no, I have no first hand experience, but almost everybody I know who went, went more than once. So talking about less comfy prisons is missing the point. What keeps most of us out of prison is fear of the unknown. Once the unknown is known...

[Katman]

Are any of them still committing crimes?

Possibly - I don't ask them.

My point is that re-offending is usually due to a wide range of issues.

Many ex-prisoners have anger issues, many have alcohol issues, many have drug issues, many have money issues, many have family issues and many have mental health issues.

I imagine that the number who re-offend simply because they want to go back inside would be extremely samll.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Do you know what it costs to house and feed one prisoner for a year ... ???

You’re right, it is cheaper to pay them the benefit, on the outside.
Point still stands however, either in or out they’re paid by the taxpayer.

[F5 Dave]

The cost of benefits on the outside is only part, a small part of the story if they are reoffending. Name the damage and expensive resources to catch and prosecute them, but the loss of productivity of the victims, not to mention the pain and anguish.

Evil fuckers should be removed from society.

That said, I've had my mind changed somewhat watching a couple of documentaries on US system. Man it is seriously broken. But there are lessons for here, and they don't just involve a hammer as the only tool.

The war on drugs hasn't worked. Some countries are adapting their policies and having better outcomes .

[Delerium]

I agree with the victim - 8 years is not enough for that piece of shit waste of air - and he will be out in under half that.

I may be old fashioned but there was something to be said for throwing a rope around a tree ........

Then again with enough tax payer paid hugs and counselling he may live a useful life making up for his youthful wrong doings proving me wrong.

Meanwhile the mother and child will never forget their encounter with him regardless of the lack of public funded attention they will receive.......

Jacinda will fix it with a sideways incline of her head and flash of the pearly whites no doubt. Oh hang on she is in bed with the Greens - nah - the crim will get all the funding, care and attention. Maybe use a rope fashioned from hemp as a compromise?

Oh you noticed the frequently used concerned nod she uses too

[TheDemonLord]

The point is that while they are locked up they can't commit crimes. Well OK, they can commit crimes against each other but...

A number of people have told me, "They don't learn anything in prison". I'd answer that by saying you go to school to learn, you go to prison to be locked up. If these people followed the KISS principle they'd be less confused.

A thought on the "soft" nature of our prisons - military prisons are much less comfortable than civilian prisons. Get off the transport looking staunch and you get an uppercut right there and then - true story. I'm not totally up to date but in one system there was no TV and the only reading material was a bible - if you requested one. On arrival you were presented a tin of boot polish and a tin of Brasso, first job was remove all the paint off both tins and polish them. Another regime had prisoners filling sandbags in the tropical sun to a predetermined rate. At "smoko" time new prisoners got to stand to attention in the sun for 10 minutes. Whichever regime, the specialty is making you work hard at something, usually something that is utterly pointless. Polish barbed wire. Dig a hole - fill it in. Basically whatever they can dream up that will piss you off.

Because they are so much harder than a civilian prison the maximum term in a military prison was six months.

And no, I have no first hand experience, but almost everybody I know who went, went more than once. So talking about less comfy prisons is missing the point. What keeps most of us out of prison is fear of the unknown. Once the unknown is known...

If you want Prisons to be Pain and Suffering - why not bring back Torture?

But I think you've rather made my point for me - with the Methods you outline, "almost everybody I know who went, went more than once." What is the point then? They go in, they go out, they go in, they go out - if nothing changes why bother letting them out? If you are not going to let them out, why bother letting them live?

And if it makes you happy - a part of me would rather that Prisons were some form of mini-hell-on-earth to Scare the living piss out of Criminals into not committing crime - but the Rational part knows that doesn't work.

I'd rather a prisoner go into prison once, learn how to be a productive member of society, come out, be productive and never go back.

[Ocean1]

If you want Prisons to be Pain and Suffering - why not bring back Torture?

But I think you've rather made my point for me - with the Methods you outline, "almost everybody I know who went, went more than once." What is the point then? They go in, they go out, they go in, they go out - if nothing changes why bother letting them out? If you are not going to let them out, why bother letting them live?

And if it makes you happy - a part of me would rather that Prisons were some form of mini-hell-on-earth to Scare the living piss out of Criminals into not committing crime - but the Rational part knows that doesn't work.

I'd rather a prisoner go into prison once, learn how to be a productive member of society, come out, be productive and never go back.

Again: make the cunts earn the price of their continued existence, until someone teaches them the value of actual work and the natural consequences of not doing enough of it they'll simply never change. Seriously, how many of them have ever been exposed to the natural effects of not earning their keep? And you expect them to change, having never had any "corrective" guidance at all?

$100k per year is it? Fine, give 'em choices as to how they're going to produce that, or starve.

[TheDemonLord]

Again: make the cunts earn the price of their continued existence, until someone teaches them the value of actual work and the natural consequences of not doing enough of it they'll simply never change. Seriously, how many of them have ever been exposed to the natural effects of not earning their keep? And you expect them to change, having never had any "corrective" guidance at all?

$100k per year is it? Fine, give 'em choices as to how they're going to produce that, or starve.

You're all Stick and no Carrot.

Look, I'm not disagreeing with the statement "Actions need to have consequences" - I'm saying that on top of that, we need to give them a vision of a better way to live.

[Black Knight]

I recently read an article on prisons in Brazil where for every book a prisoner reads and gives a written review on, he gets 4 days knocked off his sentence-I thought that wasn't a bad idea.

[Ocean1]

You're all Stick and no Carrot.

Look, I'm not disagreeing with the statement "Actions need to have consequences" - I'm saying that on top of that, we need to give them a vision of a better way to live.

Well it's become abundantly obvious over the last few decades that all carrot and no stick ain't worth shit.

And real, unregulated life is historically devoid of carrots you didn't grow yourself, and full of sticks wielded by cunts that grew fuck all and want yours.

The natural consequence of which, as you pointed out, is to gather the neighbors and shoot the cunts.

So let's clarify that vision by leaning just slightly back towards some real world experience, eh?

[pritch]

If you want Prisons to be Pain and Suffering - why not bring back Torture?

If you managed to take that out of anything I wrote your comprehension skills are seriously out of whack. It's almost as if you don't read what's written - you read some alternative that fits your preconceived notions.

I didn't make your point, I made my own, that making prisons less pleasant doesn't actually seem to be very effective.

Many prisoners are ummm "cognitively challenged", plans involving teaching them anything would be difficult to implement in any meaningful way. All previous attempts at education having failed.

Prisoners used to work prison farms, they used to paint cars in a Wellington car assembly plant (actually against UN policy, something something slave labour?), and they used to make office desks for government departments. What they do these days to learn a marketable skill, or asist with their own upkeep, I have no idea.

[Katman]

And real, unregulated life is historically devoid of carrots you didn't grow yourself, and full of sticks wielded by cunts that grew fuck all and want yours.

The natural consequence of which, as you pointed out, is to gather the neighbors and shoot the cunts.

And you have the gall to accuse me of misanthropy.

[Banditbandit]

I agree with the victim - 8 years is not enough for that piece of shit waste of air - and he will be out in under half that.

I may be old fashioned but there was something to be said for throwing a rope around a tree ........

Then again with enough tax payer paid hugs and counselling he may live a useful life making up for his youthful wrong doings proving me wrong.

Meanwhile the mother and child will never forget their encounter with him regardless of the lack of public funded attention they will receive.......

Jacinda will fix it with a sideways incline of her head and flash of the pearly whites no doubt. Oh hang on she is in bed with the Greens - nah - the crim will get all the funding, care and attention. Maybe use a rope fashioned from hemp as a compromise?

Prisoners are illegible to APPLY to the parole board for release after one third of their sentence ... that does not mean they necessarily get it ..

The Parole Board releases something like 25% of those who apply ...

New Zealand's longest serving prisoner has been locked up since 1968 .. he was last denied parole in 2015 ..

He is NOT a murderer ..

[F5 Dave]

I have always thought the parole board should have to have every third early release staying at their house for a week and see how careful they are letting them stay somewhere in a community next to your child's school.

[Grumph]

Prisoners used to work prison farms, they used to paint cars in a Wellington car assembly plant (actually against UN policy, something something slave labour?), and they used to make office desks for government departments. What they do these days to learn a marketable skill, or asist with their own upkeep, I have no idea.

Well, Paparoa, just out of ChCh is the largest organic vege supplier in NZ. Programme started by a keen motorcycle racer too...
I believe they're currently churning out relocatable houses too - and qualified builders labourers as a side product.