New Zealand. What a back water shit hole.

[FJRider]

The companies that are contacted to Transpowers maintenance are having their budgets slashed all the time.

I think you mean contracted ... ps: ... and it's the Tender system at its best. (or worst)

It's the profit margin (for the contracting company) is reduced. Wages/Salary for the people actually on the ground doing the work ... seldom changes much ...

[avgas]

Nz gid infrastructure costs more to maintain than almost all others around the world that they try and benchmark with we always explain to them this is because we do not have the clean belts underneath so have a huge amouunts of access track also lots more vegetation to maintain and a temperate maritime climate.
All the people that realised this are slowly going from Transpower.
So Transpower are actually trying to drive them down to match the rest of the world now though. Which will result in the inevitable.
Also the people that maintain the grid networks are paid a lot more overseas for their skills.
The companies that are contacted to Transpowers maintenance are having their budgets slashed all the time.

Meh - if you ask me Transpower lost all their talent 10 years ago. You could see the writing on the walls then. They were buying "the same ol'" every year for the last 50 years and then complaining they were getting the same failures.

Then they cut budgets - so that fat cats could stay on good salaries in Wellington........while the backbone shrank.
To make things worse, rather than keeping the brains internal 15 years ago. They decided it was a good idea over the next 5 years to fire everyone and contract the whole thing out.

So brains went to consultancies, brawn went to contractors.
The consultants became a mix of 1% brains, 99% money hungry wankers......who would take 80% of a budget for a project.

So now a substation costs $100M to build - even though there is only $10M of gear installed on site.

The contractors, who have to deliver a substation, think they have $100M to play with, find out they only have $20M, and they need to pay their employees. So that leaves $10M to buy gear.

So the breakers come from China. Which isn't a problem - except they aren't Areva or Siemens.......they are some brand which doesn't have an ISO. But don't worry - because for $80M those consultants will verify that is ok. How? By ringing the supplier as saying "Those breakers are all good right?".

Blind leading the Greedy leading the Poor. I am so happy to get out of that.
But that said and done - I still know there are enough people out there, doing a good job. So you are still getting value - its not as easy as it sounds. As you said - costs more to maintain. So as long as you understand that, you understand that 1 blackout every 5-10 years isn't that bad.

[avgas]

We had a powercut that lasted 20 mins once, can't remember what year though, was the 90's anyway. Still not fully recovered from that one. I think that was the last one we had.

How did you relight the fire?

[husaberg]

I think you mean contracted ... ops: ... and it's the Tender system at its best. (or worst)

It's the profit margin (for the contracting company) is reduced. Wages/Salary for the people actually on the ground doing the work ... seldom changes much ...

yip grammar Nazi yip.

[unstuck]

How did you relight the fire?

No need, I have slaves to do the menial stuff.

[Jantar]

Meh - if you ask me Transpower lost all their talent 10 years ago. You could see the writing on the walls then. They were buying "the same ol'" every year for the last 50 years and then complaining they were getting the same failures.... .

Close, but it started happening a bit before then. In 1992 Transpower lost 1/3 of its North Island System Controllers in a single year, and only one of the experienced guys is still employed in that position. (I was one who left at that point). Within the next 3 years they lost a similar number of South Island System Controllers, and over 2/3 of their substation operators. Next was the maintenance section put out to contract.

Now Transpower is in the position of having almost no personell with industry experience, and must rely on consultants and contractors.

They were buying "the same ol'" every year for the last 50 years and then complaining they were getting the same failures....

That philosophy changed in 1987. From then they changed to distributed controls and better use of computers. Electrical plant is designed to have a 30 year life, and it is only as older plant is due for replacement that it is changed to more modern designs. Some times for the better, but not always.

Now, don't forget that the Auckland failure occured at Transpower's Penrose substation, but it was Vector's cables that failed, not Transpower's.

[FJRider]

Now, don't forget that the Auckland failure occured at Transpower's Penrose substation, but it was Vector's cables that failed, not Transpower's.

Is that Jantar speak for ... System failures are always the owners (at the time) fault .. ???

[husaberg]

Close, but it started happening a bit before then. In 1992 Transpower lost 1/3 of its North Island System Controllers in a single year, and only one of the experienced guys is still employed in that position. (I was one who left at that point). Within the next 3 years they lost a similar number of South Island System Controllers, and over 2/3 of their substation operators. Next was the maintenance section put out to contract.

Now Transpower is in the position of having almost no personell with industry experience, and must rely on consultants and contractors.


That philosophy changed in 1987. From then they changed to distributed controls and better use of computers. Electrical plant is designed to have a 30 year life, and it is only as older plant is due for replacement that it is changed to more modern designs. Some times for the better, but not always.

Now, don't forget that the Auckland failure occured at Transpower's Penrose substation, but it was Vector's cables that failed, not Transpower's.

While system's control are important
The system relies on the actual network being maintained to a proper standard by competent people rather than being run into the ground in order to have a transmission network to actually control.
This network is in danger of being let down by some cheap components that for some reason the master above will not let the peasants replace. Or repeatedly delay replacement of.
It is so ironic that when these bits fail (as predicted) The master then of course blame the serfs.
Even more ironic is that when the serfs repond and point out they repeatedly told this same master and even repeatedly documented their concerns directly to the same masters.
The master then turns around and say's well you should have been more insistent then.........
People are measuring every thing on graphs and tables and spreadsheets but with no comprehension that some stuff that actually do fail that are not even part of their assessments in the first place.

[Jantar]

Is that Jantar speak for ... System failures are always the owners (at the time) fault .. ???

Not at all. transpower have never owned the cables that were affected. At ALL transpower substations Transpower owns the HT equipment, the transformers, and the LT equipment ar far as the first isolator after the transformer. The network company, in this case Vector, own everything from there on. That includes the droppers or cables to the feeders, and the lines, or cables from the feeders onwards. the failure at Penrose was in the cables after the feeders, so nothing to do with Transpower.

While system's control are important
The system relies on the actual transmission network being maintained to a proper standard by competent people rather than being run into the ground in order to have a transmission network to actually control.
This network is in danger of being let down by some cheap components that for some reason the master above will not let the peasants replace. Or repeatedly delay replacement of.....

Too true. And Transpower's grid was certainly run down from 1990 and for around 15 years afterwards. we are now seeing how detrimental that policy was. It is so bad that it is difficult to even take circuits out for maintenance without constraining other parts of the grid. Right now I am juggling hydroplogy to try and have water in the right place to manage generation for a circuit outage that starts on tuesday.

However, all that is a seperate issue to what happened at Penrose.

[husaberg]

Not at all. transpower have never owned the cables that were affected. At ALL transpower substations Transpower owns the HT equipment, the transformers, and the LT equipment ar far as the first isolator after the transformer. The network company, in this case Vector, own everything from there on. That includes the droppers or cables to the feeders, and the lines, or cables from the feeders onwards. the failure at Penrose was in the cables after the feeders, so nothing to do with Transpower.


Too true. Ander Transpower's grid was certainly run down from 1990 and for around 15 years afterwards. we are now seeing how detrimental that policy was. It is so bad that it is difficult to even take circuits out for maintenance with constraining other parts of the grid. Right now I am juggling hydroplogy to try and have water in the right place to manage generation for a circuit outage that starts on tuesday.

However, all that is a seperate issue to what happened at Penrose.

Correct but they are all symptoms of the same disease.......

[avgas]

Correct but they are all symptoms of the same disease.......

but ECNZ was supposed to be wonderful and amazing and take the DOL Electrical Board tickets to the next level

But that is enough of the negative shit - back to my previous statement. I live in a town where investment bankers live. They drive Italians and live in large multi-million dollar houses. Yet the power line outside is up a 40 year old, wood pole. The lines are surrounded by trees. The pole mounted circuit breakers are new - but look to be a 50 year old design. If they auto-re-close it must be in some crazy Russian mechanical fashion cos I can't see it.
Add to that, and it snows here......winter is going to be fun.

Talked to the local linesman mentioned the lines look due for replacement. He said he put a req form in 10 years ago, got told no budget. He said he has to be careful doing pole core tests now because the poles are starting to look like swiss cheese.
Wife wants to buy a house. I told her to keep a spare $20K aside for some solar panels and a generator.

NZ doesn't have it too bad. Sure its not perfect.......but its not the end of the world.

What ever happened to Vectors turbine project that was suppose to temporarily save Auckland should the main trunk go down. Please don't tell me it was build on the wrong side of that substation.
Ironically I tried to sell both Vector and Transpower some spark detectors many moons ago. Delta got some from recall. But the rest had not budget.

[avgas]

No need, I have slaves to do the menial stuff.

Polygamy is paying off eh?

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11346810
Even the head honcho of Vector admits the power infrastructure is crap.

[buggerit]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11346810
Even the head honcho of Vector admits the power infrastructure is crap.

Yeah, dont come back man, they have only had power 99.8 percent of the time in the last 15 years, fuck I hate fishing, riding my bike,
but what else can you do when the powers off?

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11815871

I'll bet Nigeria has better and cleaner water...