MotoGP 2015

[jasonu]

Wayne Gardner rode like he was possessed
He did it again the next year, even breaking the fairing brackets from wresting the NSR manfully back in line, from a vicious tank-slapper..

..

That is my all time favorite race. The only thing that could have made it better is if Kevin Schawntz had not binned it so early.

[J.A.W.]

Nazis were kinda sticklers for doing things properly.. the SS would boot you out for being corrupt, a thief or even a full-on piss head..
& Hitler himself brought into law modern-style animal rights ( No boiling lobsters alive!) & No smoking in Gov't buildings regs.. oddly enough..

But Adolf was a keen motor head, & sent SS team BMW to win the I.o.M. Senior TT in `39 - along with a bunch of other pre-war G.P. stuff..

[J.A.W.]

They sure look great... if the race machinery was anyway near as good as the road bikes...

The race machinery was heaps better..
Ok an RC 30 Honda Superbike is nicely screwed together, but is a lumpen dog compared to a pursang factory G.P. NSR 500..
- as for a regular CBR 600 of that era..well, that jelly mould 600 is something nasty.. to be scraped off the sole of your boot, ASAP..

[Autech]

The race machinery was heaps better..
Ok an RC 30 Honda Superbike is nicely screwed together, but is a lumpen dog compared to a pursang factory G.P. NSR 500..
- as for a regular CBR 600 of that era..well, that jelly mould 600 is something nasty.. to be scraped off the sole of your boot, ASAP..

Compared to these days where a superstock bike with road tyres and a good rider can hold its own against a paddock of superbikes I guess so.

Read a good article comparing a modern 1000 off the shelf vs a 500cc GP bike from the 90s. Same rider (ex 500cc racer), same track same day the 1000 was a tiny bit quicker. Not bad eh?


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[BMWST?]

That's late 80's is it? going by Roche Cagiva
They sure got prettier as they got faster.

i am pretty sure the very first modern PI was 1989,i was there ii could not buy a eddie lawson t shirt at any merchandise spot at PI,imagine that!

[husaberg]

Recently I received Mat Oxley's book "Stealing Speed" which recounts the story of East German Ernst Degner's defection to the West with his knowledge of the technology used by the MZ factory, and with some of their hardware.

Next season Degner appeared on a suddenly very competitive Suzuki. The Japanese two stroke had only ever previously been a dog.

I haven't read the book yet but am familiar with the broad outline of the story which ended well for Suzuki but less so for Degner. He retired to East Germany where he was subsequently found with his throat cut. Suicide apparently.

Anyhoo, while ruminating on such matters the thought occurs that there must be someone in the Suzuki factory that remembers the fastest way to get speed is to steal it from the opposition?

That's a fallacy about his death he had a heart attack but was not found till a while later he was running a rental car place he was prior to that a rep for an oil company at gps. Pretty sure he died at tenor Reef also
Kadden reckoned Honda had helped as well as they won the title when Degner pulled out of the last race and therefor won the title. Kaaden thought one engine went to the UK first to EMC then on to Rotax.

[pritch]

That's a fallacy about his death he had a heart attack but was not found till a while later he was running a rental car place he was prior to that a rep for an oil company at gps. Pretty sure he died at tenor Reef also

Ok, so I cheated and checked the end of Oxley's book.

Degner was a mess, he was a very vain guy with a badly scarred face, he was suffering depression, he was addicted to morphine, and his marriage had broken up. He had gone back to Tenerife for the summer and he died of an apparent heart attack there. His son implied that Degner's health was at such a low ebb that it wouldn't have taken much to kill him. There is also a history of the family having early heart attacks, both Degner's father and his son also had early heart attacks.

So the stuff I read on the 'Net was a load of bollocks.

Now I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the book.

[husaberg]

Ok, so I cheated and checked the end of Oxley's book.

Degner was a mess, he was a very vain guy with a badly scarred face, he was suffering depression, he was addicted to morphine, and his marriage had broken up. He had gone back to Tenerife for the summer and he died of an apparent heart attack there. His son implied that Degner's health was at such a low ebb that it wouldn't have taken much to kill him. There is also a history of the family having early heart attacks, both Degner's father and his son also had early heart attacks.

So the stuff I read on the 'Net was a load of bollocks.

Now I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the book.

At least you spelled Tenerife right unlike me.
Ages ago I posted an interview with Kaaden before he died.
Have a look at the guys eyes he seemed to be an intense dude.
I'm picking along with most others, if he could have got his family out (as Degner did) he would have defected too though.
I will try and find the link.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130150906

This one also says he commited suicide but plenty of other material says heart attack.
The family at the time were pretty vocal about the rumours of the cause of death I remember reading that.
Hugh Anderson rode with him and even stopped his bike to help him when he was burnt if memory serves me right.
I haven't read the book but I do remember there was another one around a similar time and the two books were at odds over certain things.

MZ would have been more successful if they were allowed to use more western parts and materials.
Kaaden used to barter and smuggle bits were he could as he wanted to win.

[Grumph]

MZ would have been more successful if they were allowed to use more western parts and materials.
Kaaden used to barter and smuggle bits were he could as he wanted to win.

It was a lot like NZ in the 1950's - currency restrictions prevented import of the bits Kaaden wanted, just like here.

That scenario is why i've said for years the the Classic register promotes a false history - nothing ever stayed original here once something broke.

[pritch]

From the press at the time I seem to recall that MZ were unable to pay Alan Shepherd one year so they gave him his bikes. When the bikes turned up at HM Customs he was told you can't bring those into the country, they're from East Germany. How that situation resolved itself I don't know. Politics in sport ain't new.

I had always assumed that the shortage of money was due to a shortage of hard currencies in the GDR, but while looking for the details of Degner's death I came across a passage where Oxley describes an official as misappropriating all of the wages intended for the riders. Additionally he purloined all the cash bonuses paid by the oil and tyre companies for podium finishes and transferred it all to an overseas bank account.

When the official told Kaaden he was going to defect Kaaden was extemely anxious because he had been interrogated for days after Degner's defection.

The thieving official was living in Berlin, he was never prosecuted.

From the little I've seen of "Stealing Speed" it's a good read. It was out of print and people were asking silly prices for second hand copies on Amazon. You could still get the Kindle edition for very little though. Anyhoo I now have an autographed copy, I don't think you can get those on Kindle.

[J.A.W.]

Compared to these days where a superstock bike with road tyres and a good rider can hold its own against a paddock of superbikes I guess so.

Read a good article comparing a modern 1000 off the shelf vs a 500cc GP bike from the 90s. Same rider (ex 500cc racer), same track same day the 1000 was a tiny bit quicker. Not bad eh?


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Your "good article" may've been a good 'story'- but it does not bear out in reality..

A few posts back, I noted that a check on the Eastern Creek/Sydney Motorsport Park circuit lap records
shows that the current Aussie Superbike Racing ( 2015) quickest lap is ~same as the G.P. 500
equivalent from ~20 years ago.. so a showroom stock bike - wouldn't nearly be as close..

Back when Wayne Gardner was racing V8 Stupidcars - I asked him what lap times he reckoned he could
do around Pukekohe on an NSR 500, he said probably mid-to-high 50 sec range..

What was the best time around there - done on the BSL 500?

[Shaun Harris]

Compared to these days where a superstock bike with road tyres and a good rider can hold its own against a paddock of superbikes I guess so.

Read a good article comparing a modern 1000 off the shelf vs a 500cc GP bike from the 90s. Same rider (ex 500cc racer), same track same day the 1000 was a tiny bit quicker. Not bad eh?


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So was the 500 ridden on the same day as the prodi bike, or was it based on times set by the 500 in the past? As track conditions change big time, so comparing a time of say this year, against a time set years ago, is just like having a wank, kinda pointless, apart from making your self feel better about the spew coming out

[Autech]

So was the 500 ridden on the same day as the prodi bike, or was it based on times set by the 500 in the past? As track conditions change big time, so comparing a time of say this year, against a time set years ago, is just like having a wank, kinda pointless, apart from making your self feel better about the spew coming out

Same day, same track and same rider doing a back to back comparison. Yeah just as comparing Dyno results from like the car boys like to do. Pointless unless you have the same car on the same dyno on the same day. Great to wank on about though!

I'm going to ignore Just.A.Windbag. as it appears 2stroke fumes have addled his brains and biased him towards them . That said rode a wee 2 stroke round Ruapuna on Sunday a found it hilarious fun to ride. It also appears that Phillip Island is the only track in the world that matters.

The point I was making is look at the bikes that we can pick up from the showroom today and how great they are. The fact that Joe Blogs can go buy a 1000cc weapon which is as quick on a given day around a race track as what the big guns rode back in the 90s is pretty awesome if you ask me. The fact that Joe Blogs has ham fists and could only ever get 30% out of that bike is another thing entirely!

edit: added extra '0' to the 100cc weapon. Though a lot of 1000 riders would get beaten by a clued up chap on a 100cc I'm sure!

[Shaun Harris]

Same day, same track and same rider doing a back to back comparison. Yeah just as comparing Dyno results from like the car boys like to do. Pointless unless you have the same car on the same dyno on the same day. Great to wank on about though!

I'm going to ignore Just.A.Windbag. as it appears 2stroke fumes have addled his brains and biased him towards them . That said rode a wee 2 stroke round Ruapuna on Sunday a found it hilarious fun to ride. It also appears that Phillip Island is the only track in the world that matters.

The point I was making is look at the bikes that we can pick up from the showroom today and how great they are. The fact that Joe Blogs can go buy a 100cc weapon which is as quick on a given day around a race track as what the big guns rode back in the 90s is pretty awesome if you ask me. The fact that Joe Blogs has ham fists and could only ever get 30% out of that bike is another thing entirely!

Bang on Bawana. Strokers NO NOT HIM< are great, but a thing of the past now, time too move on.

[J.A.W.]

Same day, same track and same rider doing a back to back comparison. Yeah just as comparing Dyno results from like the car boys like to do. Pointless unless you have the same car on the same dyno on the same day. Great to wank on about though!

I'm going to ignore Just.A.Windbag. as it appears 2stroke fumes have addled his brains and biased him towards them . That said rode a wee 2 stroke round Ruapuna on Sunday a found it hilarious fun to ride. It also appears that Phillip Island is the only track in the world that matters.

The point I was making is look at the bikes that we can pick up from the showroom today and how great they are. The fact that Joe Blogs can go buy a 100cc weapon which is as quick on a given day around a race track as what the big guns rode back in the 90s is pretty awesome if you ask me. The fact that Joe Blogs has ham fists and could only ever get 30% out of that bike is another thing entirely!

Awww-tech.. something is wrong with your brain.. if the facts of race results conflict with a magazine stunt, & you go with the stunt..
..somehow I doubt that mag test 500 was in full factory fettle.. likely it was marketing BS, & you bought it.. sucker..

& it appears you don't read too well either, Phillip Is aint Synney Motorsports Park..

Much of the improvement in modern machines is in the chassis/rubber..
- 4Ts are still bulky fat lazy lumps, a bit like you'd think that fat chicks are great, if you'd never had a go on a supermodel..

What 2T did you fang around Takapuna? Could it match a showroom "100cc weapon" 4T?

Awww-tech is being an ignorant flatulence bag here..