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Thread: Oddball engines and prototypes

  1. #2026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    I don't know anything about legal matters; I'd have to check with my jurist daughter, but as I understand it, individuals as well as companies can be legal parties.
    As for the Ryger company stopping trading, I never noticed they even started.
    I never really followed the Ryger stuff much, other than to look in now and again, but it always seemed to me that it was the wrong way to go, ie to take a completely new concept, hoping to make an attempt at racing it and expecting it to blow away everything else - did that ever happen before? - John Britten I guess was close anyway except that he used established ideas and assembled them all in an exaggerated "over the top " artwork package!

    I would have been inclined to road test it a lot (incognito) on quiet roads first, (do they have quiet roads in Holland?) to remove the initial bugs, as is always the case with any new concept!
    The "V-Due" is also an example of a good idea rushed into production without proper testing.!

    Still, I hate to see an enthusiast's hopes and aspirations blown into the weeds - it's easy for us armchair critics to sit here and say all this in retrospect!
    Strokers Galore!

  2. #2027
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    I would have been inclined to road test it a lot (incognito) on quiet roads first, (do they have quiet roads in Holland?)
    In my youth we could get away with a lot, but nowadays... Current population density in New Zealand is 18 per km˛. In Holland it's 414. Not many quiet roads left...

  3. #2028
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post

    Still, I hate to see an enthusiast's hopes and aspirations blown into the weeds - it's easy for us armchair critics to sit here and say all this in retrospect!
    NZ and Oz are probably the two most cynical countries in the world when it comes to new engine types. We have a history of novel ideas put forward simply as income generators so are I think, understandably shy of "new tech"....And yes, I exempt the Sarich from this, Ken.

  4. #2029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    In my youth we could get away with a lot, but nowadays... Current population density in New Zealand is 18 per km˛. In Holland it's 414. Not many quiet roads left...
    Well, not 18 around Auckland - and the other cities! - however don't tell anyone please, we like it how it is out in the country! .....and there I'll be able to test my mobility scooter with an experimental two stroke in it! but must find an alternative to the piping nightmares (maybe a three cylinder with co-joined pipes)
    Strokers Galore!

  5. #2030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    It was more than a design exercise. Prototypes ran and the design was hawked around the UK motor trade as was Bradshaw's usual policy.
    The prototypes appear to have been possibly twins - he was aiming at the small car market.
    It's a bit simpler than the Ryger in some ways - the bottom end is petroil lubed via the "timed" ventilation holes and full roller bearing.
    He apparently ran into uneven running at points in the rpm band - poor scavenging due to a form of crossflow scavenging but without a deflector to aim the flow upwards.
    It was certainly viable with some more development, nothing in it mechanically is beyond the manufacturing or matallurgy of the period.

    ....
    I'm still thinking about Bradshaw's pulsation engine!

    I think the primary compression is very effective, even with the the small transfers. But it might be benefit from a Flettner type variable disc valve, and trombone inlet. But even then I don't think it could outperform an engine with a tuned exhaust sucking through big transfers and inlet.

    The piston looks quite fragile with lots of friction surfaces.

    BTW if transfers are at one end of the cylinder and exhaust is at the other end I'd call it uniflow scavenging.

    Here's an alternative uniflow piston configuration:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #2031
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    Well Willy, having been thru the growth (since 1975) and the start of the decline (2001) of the Orbital Engine Company once can make some interesting observations. The key one being that the investors & stockbrokers, are not so much interested in the realty (the truth), but in talking things up for their potential personal gain. Just before I started they had installed one very early 7 chamber, 3.5 litre Orbital engine in a Ford Cortina (the first of the body shapes that could accept the 6 cyl Falcon engine). A video was made of it driving down the road. Cool, wonderful, smooth, the savior of the motor industry, little Aussi inventor, blah, blah…

    What the vid (well, film really) didn’t show was an engine and its spark plugs nearly dragging on the ground and the smokescreen (plus) belching out behind the car, clever photography really. Enough for the suits though and we, green faced juniors, thought it was all wonderful. And it was really, the time there was fantastic, really good people and a great learning opportunity for all. And a great place to make foreigners (motorbikes and engines) after work. Lots of interest in bikes and 2 strokes, heaven really. The Orbital Alma Mater.

    However, it did have commercial success in the end with applications of the 2 fluid DI system in outboards, and small scooters. The most notable being the Mercury Optimax outboards, which continues to this day and one version, driven by the US military to be able to run on diesel fuel, still with spark ignition. In addition they also make here in Perth, a small 50 cc engine kit that is used for military drones. This runs on Jet A fuel. Apparently it is a requirement for some military to use the same fuel for all vehicles etc, primarily for logistical reasons.

    Today became tomorrow….
    "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”

  7. #2032
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    Quote Originally Posted by guyhockley View Post
    Another F1 proposal for an opposed piston two stroke. Apologies if everyone has already read this - it is from an article that was attached to a forum post I linked to when we were discussing Lynton Imps.

    Random thought: The K series Rover engines would lend themselves to this sort of experimenting...
    Another interesting read, thanks guy.

    It's sad that regulation changes thwarted David's attempts to find success in F1, and now he's no longer with us.

  8. #2033
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    The COX outboard engine.

    A friend sent thru a pic of it. I think I had seen it before, but didn't twig it was the COX. Not sure on the actual size, but doesn't look to be user friendly to fit into a conventional outboard package.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”

  9. #2034
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbw View Post
    I'm still thinking about Bradshaw's pulsation engine!

    I think the primary compression is very effective, even with the the small transfers. But it might be benefit from a Flettner type variable disc valve, and trombone inlet. But even then I don't think it could outperform an engine with a tuned exhaust sucking through big transfers and inlet.

    The piston looks quite fragile with lots of friction surfaces.

    BTW if transfers are at one end of the cylinder and exhaust is at the other end I'd call it uniflow scavenging.
    You can see how someone could look at it and think - what would that go like with modern transfers, a longer inlet period using a reed valve - and a good pipe...
    It's not uniflow - I'd call the appearance of that an optical illusion, both the transfers and exhaust are above the piston crown at BDC. The piston was probably steel - Bradshaw has a history of steel pistons and barrels. The upper skirt could do with some cutting away to assist transfer flow but the ring arrangement apparently got in the way when that was tried. Another reason to use modern loop scavenge transfers.

    Keep burning the free WiFi Ken...

  10. #2035
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbw View Post
    Here's an alternative uniflow piston configuration:
    Ah yes, the Schliha umbrella scavenging. It's what I'm trying to achieve with my FOS scavenging system, but with more port area and without the funny piston and combustion chamber shape. Here are some more Schliha pictures.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #2036
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    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #2037
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    It would be suicide for a company chugging along fine with the good old 'tried and true' (imperfect as it may be) to try and wow the world with something new!
    Well, look no further than HD - or maybe Briggs & Strattan who, every few years just slip on a a new cowling with a sexy paint job on their 80 odd year old design and pass it on to the gullibles as the very latest in technology!

    But again, what's wrong with dreaming?
    Last edited by WilDun; 9th January 2018 at 09:24. Reason: Negative and long winded!
    Strokers Galore!

  13. #2038
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken seeber View Post
    The COX outboard engine.

    A friend sent thru a pic of it. I think I had seen it before, but didn't twig it was the COX. Not sure on the actual size, but doesn't look to be user friendly to fit into a conventional outboard package.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ken, At first glance I thought that this can't be the Cox engine, as I had read that Cox is an opposed piston diesel, with 4 cylinders with 8 pistons.

    I was thinking perhaps it's similar internally to Ecomoter (central image below). However it appears from your image that the grey cylinders are in fact sleeve valves with closed ends (forming outer pistons?), connected to a scotch yoke!

    Does your friend have a Cox animation?

    This Cox patent may also be of interest:

    https://www.google.com/patents/US20100192923
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #2039
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Ah yes, the Schliha umbrella scavenging. It's what I'm trying to achieve with my FOS scavenging system, but with more port area and without the funny piston and combustion chamber. Here are some more Schliha pictures.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Schliha 1929-01.jpg 
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ID:	334634 Click image for larger version. 

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    Frits, I'm really glad you posted those additional images, as I was wondering how long it would take, before someone would ask why the crankcase in my image was open to atmosphere, via the head!
    Some of your images show the cap sealing the head.

  15. #2040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    You can see how someone could look at it and think - what would that go like with modern transfers, a longer inlet period using a reed valve - and a good pipe...
    It's not uniflow - I'd call the appearance of that an optical illusion, both the transfers and exhaust are above the piston crown at BDC. The piston was probably steel - Bradshaw has a history of steel pistons and barrels. The upper skirt could do with some cutting away to assist transfer flow but the ring arrangement apparently got in the way when that was tried. Another reason to use modern loop scavenge transfers.

    Keep burning the free WiFi Ken...
    Yes, I too would love to see the Bradshaw Pulsation Engine updated, whilst still retaining uniflow. I say uniflow because the transfers and inlet are adjacent to piston crown at BDC, whereas the exhaust is adjacent to the cylinder head.

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