Oddball engines and prototypes

[190mech]

I had a concern about the swiss cheeze 2 stroke cylinder deforming under clamping loads,but Jan Thiel showed a cylinder layout from his past on another forum that had wide spaced sleeves cast in for through studs so the cylinder had little distortion..

[Grumph]

The TNT article says they used .13" wall 4130 cylinders and the engine comes out of the furnace stress relieved and accurate to within .01".

Would a 2T need a thicker steel cylinder because of the openings for the ports, or will the ports brazed/welded to the cylinder stiffen it up? All steels are pretty much the same stiffness, so mild steel on the liner with plating to help the wear sounds reasonable to me.

The ports could be done by hammerforming, no need for a press and sturdy die. I think copper plating could be done as a DIY process.

The one drawback I see is that the thin walls are probably not going to lend themselves to experimental porting, there may not be enough metal to allow grinding.

Yeah, what you fabricate would be the finished item unless you're prepared to take it apart again..
Be a good and fairly quick way to prototype something different though.
I'd thought transfer ports could be built-up flat wall fabrications - after all, that's the main shapes of the Aprilia transfers. Exhausts would be a bit harder though. Squashed tube ?

Through bolt stresses can be accomodated with welded in tubular stud passages between your top and bottom plates - Like the aforementioned cast in pieces.

Edit - memory just kicked in, LOL. The Dent water cooled Villiers conversion had an outer water jacket consisting of a large dia piece of alloy tube trapped between the head and a fin left on the air cooled barrel. Wouldn't be too hard to arrange something similar for quick access to the inner barrel.

[husaberg]

Edit - memory just kicked in, LOL. The Dent water cooled Villiers conversion had an outer water jacket consisting of a large dia piece of alloy tube trapped between the head and a fin left on the air cooled barrel. Wouldn't be too hard to arrange something similar for quick access to the inner barrel.

I was thinking of a inner threaded thin wall pipe on outer section just use a bigger thread on one end so it can be slipper over. KISS

[Grumph]

I was thinking of a inner threaded thin wall pipe on outer section just use a bigger thread on one end so it can be slipper over. KISS

Easier to design than do, lol. The Dent version was simple plain tube.

[husaberg]

Easier to design than do, lol. The Dent version was simple plain tube.

How did he seal it so he could take it apart to modify.
Thinking about it you could just braze on threads male threads one large at the base, one small at the top of cylinder easy peasy and self agligning. braze on female threads to the pipe outer housing it would end up much like a water filter housing. only threaded at bout ends

[Grumph]

How did he seal it so he could take it apart to modify.
Thinking about it you could just braze on threads male threads one large at the base, one small at the top of cylinder easy peasy and self agligning. braze on female threads to the pipe outer housing it would end up much like a water filter housing. only threaded at bout ends

Judging by the only pics I've seen he used hardish sheet rubber top and bottom. Putting the head on clamped it all down and seems to have sealed it well enough. Looks like around 3mm wall alloy tube as the jacket.
Today you might set the tube into a groove top and bottom - with O rings to be compressed.

[husaberg]

Seen this just a minute ago
Someone in Northlands is making binks mousetrap carbs.
Looks very well make as well.
http://binks.co.nz/workshop/

[Grumph]

The mousetrap is the road carb. It's capable of being throttled down.

The Rat Trap was the race carb. It had a "trap" or flat flap which was held down for starting - then once the bike had fired, the trigger was pulled (literally) the trap went to full open and you were off...
Used on speedway bikes, once it was open you used a kill button to control speed. To stop, kill button again. Reset carb for next race.
Remember, everything on speedway was rolling start at that time. And alcohol fuel.

I heard all about them from the old man who used them up to the mid 1930's on speedway - and grass tracks. Good on speedway, not bad on mile grass, hard to control on half mile grass...

[pete376403]

The mousetrap is the road carb. It's capable of being throttled down.

The Rat Trap was the race carb. It had a "trap" or flat flap which was held down for starting - then once the bike had fired, the trigger was pulled (literally) the trap went to full open and you were off...
Used on speedway bikes, once it was open you used a kill button to control speed. To stop, kill button again. Reset carb for next race.
Remember, everything on speedway was rolling start at that time. And alcohol fuel.

I heard all about them from the old man who used them up to the mid 1930's on speedway - and grass tracks. Good on speedway, not bad on mile grass, hard to control on half mile grass...

Hence the term "button off in the corner..." My dad raced at Kilbirnie way back when. At first he used to ride from home in Wadestown, take of the muffler and lights and do the events, put the stuff back on and ride home. Later on he had a bike built by Len Southward called the "Home Brew" - Harley peashooter frame, Indian motor with one cylinder removed and the magneto mounted on a plate over the hole. Don't know about the carb, though.

[Grumph]

Hence the term "button off in the corner..." My dad raced at Kilbirnie way back when. At first he used to ride from home in Wadestown, take of the muffler and lights and do the events, put the stuff back on and ride home. Later on he had a bike built by Len Southward called the "Home Brew" - Harley peashooter frame, Indian motor with one cylinder removed and the magneto mounted on a plate over the hole. Don't know about the carb, though.

Probably a Schebler carb. Used on Peashooters, one of the best of the period. Len was pretty clued up. Met him once.
We had just finished our first keeler build and were mounting the mast off the South Brighton bridge by the Pleasant Point yacht club - as you did then.
Some bugger started running a big speedboat up and down the measured kilo on the estuary - coming right up to the bridge before turning around which gave us a big problem with his wash...
After some serious abuse from the old man, the guy came alongside - and it was Len in the Allison engined boat he built. They recognised each other and it was all old mates again - and he pissed off and let us get the job finished.

[WilDun]

...........After some serious abuse from the old man, the guy came alongside - and it was Len in the Allison engined boat he built...........

Was that the Allison V12 aircraft engine, (as was used in the Airacobra and the Kittyhawk)?

[Grumph]

Was that the Allison V12 aircraft engine, (as was used in the Airacobra and the Kittyhawk)?

Yes - AFAIK the boat is in Southwards Museum outside Wellington.

[pete376403]

Yes - AFAIK the boat is in Southwards Museum outside Wellington.

with the prop shaft still bent from whatever it hit, putting the prop through the bottom of the hull and sinking the boat.

[nadroj]

10fn charct

[Brian d marge]

I did all right out of Honda last month and may will be steady ...

Havent been to HRC since Xmas , ..the cheap fkrs

Anyway , to be honest there is nothing special there.

Half the people on this list would be better engineers than HRC ,,, but ...Honda is an old Japanese company , and the japanese have ways of doing things , that if you havent dealt with or dont know Japanese culture ...ya will struggle with,

company is king. and group loyalty is very important , ( its changing !)

Soooo , the Japanese work well as a team , each have their duty and they WILL do exactly as they are told or instructed and do it very well. Kanji is very important and they can tell if someone is Japanese or not simply by the look of the Kanji ... I have done an experiment where I have 3 bits of paper one with a kanji written by a japanese person and two by me as best I can ,,,,90% of the time the japanese spot the native written kanji !)

so detail and precision are important to em ... So as a unit they work very well . each having their own areas of expertise and no idividualism , no.."I know what Im talking about" .....bullshyt which you get in NZ ......( seen that a million times )

Secondly they make business relationships , which are strong and loyal. You contract to Honda and Honda will look after you ..( alas that is changing ) and they can be as racist as fk in that they only trust other japanese , they WILL steal / use western ideas but it will be made here .and trust the opinion of other Japanese to the point of absurdity sometimes .....( can tell u a million stories on that as well ....)

NZ could ( and did ) produce high tech material , but would have to change its approach to how it goes about that process. imho

Just a few thoughts

The Hrc reception girl is a bit plump ..no thank u ...., Wakoshi reception are HOT but cant touch , Asaka girls are do able just for the record