Oddball engines and prototypes

[pete376403]

Was the Kohler / BMW ever finished and ridden?

[sidecar bob]

Was the Kohler / BMW ever finished and ridden?

Not sure, but the Konig one was.
http://www.cas-krage.de/en/facts/history-facts/

[Grumph]

Was the Kohler / BMW ever finished and ridden?

Finished, reg and WOF'd. He used to ride it to work. He's moved and I wouldn't want to do his current route on a bike.
Main south Rd Rolleston - ChCh. Dreadful traffic.

[Pursang]

but I've found the book it was in (it's called "Connaught") - I've managed to scan the text and pics and post them .....
There you go ..... a bit rough but all there!
Attachment 336625Attachment 336626Attachment 336627

Interesting note about the 'inevitable' loss of volumetric efficiency (power output/capacity) from preheating the charge.
Back in the 20's & 30's there were designs that greatly improved 'combustion' efficiency (power output/fuel used), smoothness and knock prevention,
by dramatically pre-heating and partially combusting the fuel, to produce simpler compounds that burned more efficiently in a slow, low compression engine.
Sort of like stratified combustion, but done in the carby/ manifold, not the cylinder head.

The diaphragm pumped 4stroke valveless stationary engine has now joined the queue of projects & experiments.

cheers, Daryl

[WilDun]

Interesting note about the 'inevitable' loss of volumetric efficiency (power output/capacity) from preheating the charge.
Back in the 20's & 30's there were designs that greatly improved 'combustion' efficiency (power output/fuel used), smoothness and knock prevention,
by dramatically pre-heating and partially combusting the fuel, to produce simpler compounds that burned more efficiently in a slow, low compression engine.
Sort of like stratified combustion, but done in the carby/ manifold, not the cylinder head.

The diaphragm pumped 4stroke valveless stationary engine has now joined the queue of projects & experiments.

cheers, Daryl

Yes Daryl, that idea also has its uses in the HCCI engine scenario with a hot charge being introduced to help initiate HCCI type combustion - the "inevitable" lack of density being compensated for by some form of forced charging (supercharge?).
We have allowed ourselves to become ham strung by competition rules when we don't need to be, -I realise that competition is great and much IC engine development comes from it, but also some of the "inevitable" (and necessary) competition rules (such as banning of supercharging) have influenced our thinking in other areas of IC engine design and tend to affect engines not needing to be governed by racing rules - there is a much bigger world out there.
I do think the car manufacturers have at last started to catch on though!

[Grumph]

Yes Daryl, that idea also has its uses in the HCCI engine scenario with a hot charge being introduced to help initiate HCCI type combustion - the "inevitable" lack of density being compensated for by some form of forced charging (supercharge?).
We have allowed ourselves to become ham strung by competition rules when we don't need to be, -I realise that competition is great and much IC engine development comes from it, but also some of the "inevitable" (and necessary) competition rules (such as banning of supercharging) have influenced our thinking in other areas of IC engine design and tend to affect engines not needing to be governed by racing rules - there is a much bigger world out there.
I do think the car manufacturers have at last started to catch on though!

Competition was great and much engine development came from it....past tense.
Many race formulas now are deliberately limited - not for the old reason of the technology not being appropriate for road use - but for the sheer cost.
For some years now, the top race car classes in NZ and Oz have had a lower level of technology than cars in the spectator parks.
It comes down to the size of the market. Something produced in many thousands will cost less than a short run of specialised items.
Bikes have gone much the same way - everything down from MotoGP level is production based now. Electronic aids are limited. In some cases, for race use, the electronic suites fitted are less comprehensive than the road version...
Sadly, racing now - whether car or bike - is more for entertainment than the improvement of the type...

[WilDun]

Competition was great and much engine development came from it....past tense.
Many race formulas now are deliberately limited - not for the old reason of the technology not being appropriate for road use - but for the sheer cost............Sadly, racing now - whether car or bike - is more for entertainment than the improvement of the type...

Yes, all very sad to see and I guess, as everything on the roads these days is saturated with technology now (both necessary and unnecessary) it has now got to the stage where skill or the ability to drive (cars) or know anything about them (cars and bikes) isn't even remotely necessary! - not fun anymore.

[guyhockley]

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...-vapor-engine/

[guyhockley]

Different approach from crankcase supercharging but I hope it's a foul stroke Will approves of!
https://youtu.be/eWZfRdm9u9c

[guyhockley]

Regards fabricated ports. This has been done in the Bantam racing club, usually combined with a water-cooling conversion. One example;
http://bsabantamracing.editboard.com...l-s-125-engine
Brief explanation of how about 6 or 7 messages down on page 2.
He doesn't mention any problems, but I know of one bloke who had problems honing the finished (cast iron D1) barrel as it seemed to have locally hardened round the ports...

[190mech]

Guy,
Thanks for posting the Bantam fabricated port/cylinder link!I would like to build a similar setup for the sluggish 90cc scooter engines,,it gives me hope that other crazy folk are out there doing the same thing!!

[WilDun]

Different approach from crankcase supercharging but I hope it's a foul stroke Will approves of!
https://youtu.be/eWZfRdm9u9c

That is very interesting story on Smokey Yunick, and I guess It does say something for my belief in a hot charge working, especially with HCCI and supercharge to make it all possible (with modern metallurgy of course).
Would a more modest/simple/efficient engine running at constant speed, driving a generator to power electric motors (with modern controls) to do the rest, be adequate?
Whether it's 2 or 4 stroke to me doesn't matter, it's all a question of either of them being able to survive at all! (remember electric motors, turbines etc looming)!

I think that the engine in the animation is more or less the same idea as the Japanese model aircraft engine I described earlier (YS), basically, crankcase compression each revolution, (one compression being saved in a chamber up top and both being released into the cylinder when the intake valve opens every two revolutions, also a power stroke every second revolution (therefore supercharge) - premix ? ....... no!

[husaberg]

[Pursang]

Smokey is one of my hero's..but he didn't Invent the ultra heating /pre-combustion process, just a modernised application.

Packard were doing it in the 1930's.

Here is some info in a pdf, Ok to open, it's clean & safe, even if it looks black and scary.
(Might be invisible if you're viewing on the dark side)
Funnily, "The Dark Side" was Bob Harris's name for anti-carburettasation and DYI FI.



Bit too much of a mind bend for most to handle, but not in this thread.

Cheers, Daryl.

[WilDun]

Smokey is one of my hero's..but he didn't Invent the ultra heating /pre-combustion process, just a modernised application...........

Packard were doing it in the 1930's.............

Cheers, Daryl.

As they said somewhere, "there is nothing new under the sun". - but there is often a lot of resistance (from some), who will try to prevent it becoming public and commonplace ......for some reason!