Muddler/Dabbler.
Yes thanks I'm ok - I do check the threads every two or three days, but there's a lot of other problems and changes going on in my life and taking up most my time at the moment (nothing which can't be sorted out - eventually).Originally Posted by guyhockley
I won't be contributing but will probably keep up to date both with this thread and the foundry thread!
Strokers Galore!
Hardcore Biker
Goodonya Will, all this stuff stimulates the memory and imagination, keeping those good juices flowing and just keeps us so young... We all get distracted by various events in our lives, (me with houses at the moment) but that's life.but will probably keep up to date both with this thread and the foundry thread!
Looking forward to more comments from your good self...we've had the occasional real wanker on kb, but there's a good bunch at present
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
Hardcore Biker
5 cylinder Hayabusa, seems to be built as a normal 4 + extra pot.
https://www.engineswapdepot.com/?p=18927&
https://youtube.com/watch?v=vCXnDJHsGRk
Low personal B.M.E.P.
Won't open for me - but that's my internet. I've built a couple of Busa's and there's not a lot of excess strength in there....
Hardcore Biker
Fairly typical cut'n'shut job, left hand end of the case cut off and another left hand end plus 1 more cylinder bottom end welded on. Block cut through the middle of number 2 and another block cut through number 1 welded on. That bore fitted with an iron sleeve. Extra left hand bit of cylinder head welded on.
The bit I thought made it interesting was he showed a left hand bit of crank skimmed off just inboard of the radius, then butted up to the original crank end main journal. Presume it was welded and ground, he didn't seem to say.
So, it's a normal 2up 2down crank with a 5th cylinder at 90° as far as I can see.
Low personal B.M.E.P.
Hope it's been left pretty standard as far as the cams and pistons go. High com pistons and decent cams and the cases fret.
With the setup you describe and readily available hot bits, I'd doubt it would last long...
Hardcore Biker
I was at a hill climb, last weekend, and there were a couple of Hayabusa 1600s (cars) but runs were in the 30-40 second area so not a lot of time for anything nasty!
I think for those of us who've grown up with British and early Japanese bikes, modern sports bike engines, and gearboxes, have frighteningly light "scantlings"...
Low personal B.M.E.P.
You're not wrong....I was talking last week to the guy who builds engines for Suzuki NZ. They have a pool of GSXR1000 engines for the supported riders - or did until our regs changed to what are now pretty much stock engines. I've got a couple here to go through from a few seasons back for a customer.
He was telling me that they're regarded as throwaway after one season....You can buy them at your risk. The cases fret, stretch and distort.
I note that BMW do an exchange service for the superbike engines. Their cases must be somewhat more rugged as they don't seem to be replaced as part of the rebuild.
Fair weather rider
One would think that with modern CAD ,a great engine could be made to be light yet strong in all the right places..I tend to think the 'bean counters' have a finite lifespan carefully engineered into this modern stuff,if they make it thru the warranty period and until the next new model,all is wonderful(for them..)
Low personal B.M.E.P.
Almost...Remember, we're talking kitted engines here. From the stock 160-odd HP to the full kit around 200 HP is a serious increase in stress.One would think that with modern CAD ,a great engine could be made to be light yet strong in all the right places..I tend to think the 'bean counters' have a finite lifespan carefully engineered into this modern stuff,if they make it thru the warranty period and until the next new model,all is wonderful(for them..)
The GSXR1000 family is developing a reputation for lasting a very long while - if left stock.
What I see is often worse. Put one in a sidecar and you start with changing the shift fork rails to solid instead of tubular - the loads trying to push the box out of gear flex the stock rails enough to put a permanent bend in them. Keeping the cases together at the output shaft is a nightmare too.
But it's always been like that - we do tend to push the limits of whatever design we go racing with. I'm assuming that someone somewhere is probably looking at a smoking heap of what was an electric race bike....
Hardcore Biker
Royce Creasey (ex William's F1 transmission tech) says there is a triangle of factors for gearboxes. Torque, grip and weight - increase any of those and the transmission will be under more stress.
Lots of BECs (bike-engined cars) in the UK, who do seem to suffer lots of gearbox woes. Also, the couple I've looked at run a propshaft straight off the output shaft/sprocket back to the rear axle so no cush drive and possibly the chain has a cushioning effect, too, that they don't have.
When Keith Duckworth got involved with Norton he was said to be astonished at the size of their gearbox cogs for the amount of torque from their small engine, until it clicked that the primary drive had quite a significant reduction ratio...
I think Peter Williams upped that ratio at one point to give the clutch and box an easier time. Could be a clue there for BECs?
Hardcore Biker
Drag racers know all about this, of course, and Puma Engineering
http://www.pumaengineering.moonfruit.com
build massively strong billet bottom ends.
There's a company that builds a Hayabusa bottom end to mate with car gearboxes, too, but there's a couple of others that I thought were interesting.
Cycle World reported that Suzuki made some GS(X)1100 cases in cast iron for a Pro-Stock (I think that's right) racer in the US. They weighed 70 pounds against 30(?) for stock ones.
A bloke in Australia found out that Kawasaki's jet ski engine was developed from the ZX12 so he combined the better breathing bike top end with the tougher, longer stroke jet ski bottom end to get a 1500 that can take lots of boost and drive a drag style box off the end of the crank.
Low personal B.M.E.P.
Kawasaki generally seem to build somewhat more rugged cases - on the big tourers at least. I've not had a late 1000 apart. I have however had to build up another engine for a racing sports car using a turboed 1400. He'd only just bought it and went the wrong way in the box attempting to change up at peak revs in 2nd...Put one of a set of Carillos out the front. One does wonder how much of the BEC problems are owner caused...
Speedway TQ's I used to take everything out of the box except 1st and 2nd. Chain drive cars of course, the ones with a propshaft and quickchange diff drive off the end of the crank. Make up spacers for the shafts which were pretty much a press fit so the shafts were stiffer too. Start off in 1st, one change up and that's it. Speedway sidecars use the same setup.
Edit addition - It's not generally known but Kawasaki produced a "bare" Z1 engine for odd applications. NIce crankcase with a spin-on filter out the side. Ignition one end and a flanged crank end the other. I think they were aimed at aero use but the one I saw was in an American speedway TQ out here as part of the USAC team.
Scooter boy
Just to elaborate on Andy's Ducati 'mono'. This is the third one he's built- he experimented with the original Ducati Supermono idea of a 'dummy' rod , but quickly developed the engine into a big Aermacchi, using the front cylinder only, balancing the crank using a split counterweight in place of the second rod, piston, etc. The engine is balanced to the standard Aermacchi balance factor of aprox 27%. This is because the cylinder is horizontal. When I first built up my 'macchi 40 odd years ago, Rob Selby (while he was at Denco Engineering) balanced it to standard vertical single factor of 50%, which led to double vision, hands vibrating off bars and frame beakages!
Andy's first mono was ridden by a 'friend ' a couple of years ago, and the 'rod bolts' connecting the two halves of the balance weight came loose, causing the engine to self destruct. There was adequate warning this was happening as you might imagine, however some riders are not particularly mechanically sympathetic!!
At Pukekohe this Feb, Andy had a 470cc and a 530cc version. I rode the 470cc bike, and it was lovely- smooth, torquey and revvy as well. It is probably nicer to ride than the bigger version. Andy has a 4 valve injected head in his cupboard- be interesting to see this one built!!
Forum whore
Not an oddball engine, rather about balancing.I had a 4 valve jawa speedway bike that I ran at te marua. Vibration wasn't too bad at all. I went to dunedin for a while and they dont run bikes at beachlands, so I borrowed a TQ chassis and put the jawa in to that, across the frame but using exactly the same mounting system as the bike. It vibrated so badly that it was almost impossible to hold the steering wheel, to the point one of the ally spokes of the steering wheel broke in two. Gave up with it, put the engine back into the bike for when I returned to Wellington . Apparently something to do with the plane of vibration in lne with the wheels when in the bike.
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
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