Oddball engines and prototypes

[Grumph]

I don't know if this has been featured before but I'm not checking 173 pages to find out. This is the first photo of this engine that I've come across, lots of pics of bike with fairing, engine pics not so much.

Honda RC116, 50cc twin, 22,000RPM. I'd always assumed this to be a parallel twin, apparently not.

Just an unfortunate angle of the pic. It's a parallel twin all right.

[husaberg]

I don't know if this has been featured before but I'm not checking 173 pages to find out. This is the first photo of this engine that I've come across, lots of pics of bike with fairing, engine pics not so much.

Honda RC116, 50cc twin, 22,000RPM. I'd always assumed this to be a parallel twin, apparently not.

It is, from that pic though the tops of the heads being widely splayed DOHC makes it look like a V twin
But if you look lower the cylinders are parallel
look at the head of the RC166


Here is the insides of a RC116

[Grumph]

How things have chamged...Those heads are pure 1914 Peugeot - wide valve angles and no squish.
Post Cosworth, you'd do them quite differently.

[Frits Overmars]

They had about as much squish area as a Cosworth head, though not yet the compact Cosworth combustion chamber shape, due to the Honda's wide valve angles.

[husaberg]

How things have chamged...Those heads are pure 1914 Peugeot - wide valve angles and no squish.
Post Cosworth, you'd do them quite differently.

They had about as much squish area as a Cosworth head, though not yet the compact Cosworth combustion chamber shape, due to the Honda's wide valve angles.

Honda went with the wide spaced valves because they needed the airflow between the cams to cool the air cooled head.
Every 4V engine from the 851 to the Britten had a Cossy copy head design.
The cossys from memory ran less than 30 degrees advance the hondas about 50 +

[guyhockley]

There were some early prototypes of the RR Merlin with inlets at 45° but they went with the flat head version for production, according to various aero engine books.
Wonder if there were other engines with narrow valve angles?
My wife's Opel 16 valve engine looks like it has a flat head, 4 valves and Heron type pistons (from looking at a picture in the manual, haven't had to look at the hardware)

[guyhockley]

Found the book. Sorry bout the poor pics. Valves operated from cam rings each side of the center main.
Valve seats are neoprene. Quiet operation, don't corrode during long periods of sitting with valves open - and in the crankcase,not exposed to high heat.

I've never managed to even get a look at Irving's two stroke book. Just did a search for a copy and one of the cover pictures that came up seemed to show the Perkins.

https://www.amazon.com/Two-Stroke-Po..._1551623931555

The Perkins and Martin layouts look virtually identical...

[guyhockley]

Mac McDairmid who was a journalist built a T250 and Won the Classic IOM TT on it in the mid 80's it cost about 500 pounds.
It wast particularly classic as it had Benelli 2c forks and brake and a GT250 frame and a later tank off a TDC Yam but it won
Pretty sure i have posted about it before.
I have
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/a...hmentid=319909
There are some nice pics of two original TR250 there as well.
Steve Roberts i understand has made a fair few Replica frames
But most here used to add the curved loops Suzuki should have put in, in the first place.

Most European racers of Suzuki twins, 250 and 500, just put in straight braces.
I once spent a day in the company of Terry Shepherd, back when he was building his Suzuki based TZ alternative.
Very interesting bloke with lots to tell, technical and gossip!
Danny Pullen from the Isle of Man had one of the Suzukis, at least one of the cast frames and the original patterns. He was involved in a joint project with some french bloke to produce more frames but I don't know what came of it.

[husaberg]

Most European racers of Suzuki twins, 250 and 500, just put in straight braces.
I once spent a day in the company of Terry Shepherd, back when he was building his Suzuki based TZ alternative.
Very interesting bloke with lots to tell, technical and gossip!
Danny Pullen from the Isle of Man had one of the Suzukis, at least one of the cast frames and the original patterns. He was involved in a joint project with some french bloke to produce more frames but I don't know what came of it.

Way back i posted the Shepherd WC not sure where.

[ken seeber]

Electrical theory as per Sir Joseph Lucas

Positive ground depends on proper circuit function which is the transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke".
Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work.
We know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of an electrical circuit, it stops working.

This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing.
For example, if one places a copper bar across the terminals of a battery, prodigious quantities of smoke are liberated and the battery shortly ceases to function.
In addition, if one observes smoke escaping from an electrical component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be observed that the component no longer functions.

The logic is elementary and inescapable!

The function of the wiring harness is to conduct the smoke from one device to another. When the wiring springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works afterward.
Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for some time largely because they consumed large quantities of smoke, requiring very unsightly large wires.
It has been reported that Lucas electrical components are possibly more prone to electrical leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American counterparts. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers, hydraulic forks and disk brake systems leak fluid, British tyres leak air and British Intelligence leaks national defence secrets.

Therefore, it follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke.

Once again, the logic is clear and inescapable.

In conclusion, the basic concept of transmission of electrical energy in the form of smoke provides a logical explanation of the mysteries of electrical components especially British units manufactured by Joseph Lucas, Ltd.

This has been referred to as the smoke theory when the smoke comes out it is finished, cooked or done for.

Also remember: "A gentleman does not motor about after dark."
Joseph Lucas "The Prince of Darkness" 1842-1903

A few Lucas quips:
The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."
Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit.
Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper.
Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.
The three-position Lucas switch--DIM, FLICKER and OFF.
The other three switch settings--SMOKE, SMOLDER and IGNITE.
The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics.

If Lucas made guns, wars would not start

Back in the '70s, Lucas decided to diversify its product line and began manufacturing vacuum cleaners. It was the only product they offered which did not suck.

Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: Because Lucas makes their refrigerators.

[pete376403]

There were some early prototypes of the RR Merlin with inlets at 45° but they went with the flat head version for production, according to various aero engine books.
Wonder if there were other engines with narrow valve angles?
My wife's Opel 16 valve engine looks like it has a flat head, 4 valves and Heron type pistons (from looking at a picture in the manual, haven't had to look at the hardware)

Weslake speedway engines had a very narrow valve angle. They were a pushrod 4v. The Jawa 4v was DOHC, pretty narrow angle as well, both had almost completely flat top pistons

[husaberg]

Weslake speedway engines had a very narrow valve angle. They were a pushrod 4v. The Jawa 4v was DOHC, pretty narrow angle as well, both had almost completely flat top pistons

(Neil Neville? )Street or something converted them years before Jawa offered them not sure if it was a Weslake or Cosworth copy.
the Weslake head came from about the mid 60's from F1.
Not sure what year the first Rickman 8v hear was or the first OHC they did first one they did but pretty similar years.

looking at the net it seem the Weslake engine came form a BRM project.

While driving for the British Racing Motors (BRM) Formula One team in 1960, Gurney became acquainted with BRM engineer Aubrey Woods, who then moved to Weslake Engineering. Through Woods, Gurney became aware of a Weslake engine research project funded by Shell Oil. This two-cylinder, 500-cc test engine produced impressive horsepower, and Gurney extrapolated the test engine's output to a 3-liter, V12 Grand Prix engine, potentially putting out up to 450 horsepower, and he commissioned Weslake to build the engine

looks like they never won a race. edit No they won one race only in F1
looks like Harry westlake was in volved in the RR merlin devlopment Also 4v.

From memory Goddens worked for westlake and Valentine did also they also went out on their own.


here is a nice bit on Harry westlake love the bit where he put Joe craig n his place.
https://thevintagent.com/2017/05/11/...y-all-my-life/

i was trying to find this one based on the Clymax racing engine i think
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131074909

[husaberg]

I found these on a dredge
Honda F1 devlopment
Note the plugged Gudgeon.

[husaberg]

rods airbox


Forgot about the Millyard 6

[husaberg]

Ktm250 powered SS50
Love Chris walkers words at the end. Hes a former 500GP rider
not sure who the other rider is its doesnt seem to be nation or Haslam and it sure isnt hislop? that only leaves John McGuinness?