Oddball engines and prototypes

[WilDun]

Husa, Regarding the air motor,
Getting places (service stations etc.) to install and maintain the expensive compressors and equipment to cater for this technology would not be easy, nor do I think it would be a safe or wise financial move for them to make.
Remember the CNG saga a few years back? I saw 2 companies go bankrupt through taking a punt on that and it wasn't such a dramatic move as this!

Put it this way, I believe you live down the West Coast - would you be game to invest ( assuming you would have or could obtain funding for it) in the first charging station on the West coast?
But that's that's how some people learn I guess.

We already have a perfectly good solution in in the petrol/electric hybrids running around the cities, which are still in the process of being developed and using the electric power already in place which has been proven over and over. Yes we still may have to do some upgrades to our power production but then, the electricity can be easily converted to DC and put into the car directly through a simple charger (as opposed to through an electric motor to an inefficient expensive compressor and will also be of use for all sorts of stuff throughout the country.
You can't really have large centralised compressed air stations!

Hope I'm making at least a little bit of sense!

[husaberg]

Husa, Regarding the air motor,
Getting places (service stations etc.) to install and maintain the expensive compressors and equipment to cater for this technology would not be easy, nor do I think it would be a safe or wise financial move for them to make.
Remember the CNG saga a few years back? I saw 2 companies go bankrupt through taking a punt on that and it wasn't such a dramatic move as this!

Put it this way, I believe you live down the West Coast - would you be game to invest ( assuming you would have or could obtain funding for it) in the first charging station on the West coast?
But that's that's how some people learn I guess.

We already have a perfectly good solution in in the petrol/electric hybrids running around the cities, which are still in the process of being developed and using the electric power already in place which has been proven over and over. Yes we still may have to do some upgrades to our power production but then, the electricity can be easily converted to DC and put into the car directly through a simple charger (as opposed to through an electric motor to an inefficient expensive compressor and will also be of use for all sorts of stuff throughout the country.
You can't really have large centralised compressed air stations!

Hope I'm making at least a little bit of sense!

It does, but the West Coast isn't a urban area.
Electric cars have hugely expensive batteries. That can't be recycled they also take multiple hours to charge.
If we on the Coast were allowed to used our recourses we would be using coal gas powered electricity. Here is Cat GEN SET engines that run on it very easily.
All we need to do is drill holes. As it is all the resources here (as well as most of the rest of NZ mineral permits) are about to be sold off to multinationals.

South Island never really went CNG we used LPG and it is still popular and readily available. A lot of new houses still use it for cooking and water heating as well as BBQ and still plenty of cars.
Ford were still selling them brand new here a couple of years ago.
Both of these require shipping volatile fuels large distances using fuel to do so and huge industrial compressors and processes to compress them.
You can't beat an internal combustion engine for power density but it can be beaten for around town economy running.

[WilDun]

It does, but the West Coast isn't a urban area.
Electric cars have hugely expensive batteries. That can't be recycled they also take multiple hours to charge.


South Island never really went CNG we used LPG and it is still popular and readily available.

Both of these require shipping volatile fuels large distances using fuel to do so
You can't beat an internal combustion engine for power density but it can be beaten for around town economy running.

We've got a little Chinaman up here who can rebuild these batteries and he is very popular with a lot of cabbies. If they are used a lot as in taxis, they will probably last as long as the vehicle they are in anyway.

Trying not sound like a smug city dweller (I was born and grew up on a farm -I'm still a country boy and always will be!) but all our power, liquid fuels and gas (here in Auckland) comes in either by pipeline or cable and there is really no need for transporting dangerous fuels long distances because we have plenty of oil in this country which is being spirited overseas in order to get the maximum prices then is sold back to us.
Anyway it was from the piped gas supply that we obtained the gas for the ill fated CNG enterprise.

Whether the compressed air car is a successful concept from an engineering perspective or not, I believe that trying to coax the general public to accept it would be a mammoth task!

[Ocean1]

Wooden air engine...

Now, if we're discussing inappropriate materials...

[husaberg]

We've got a little Chinaman up here who can rebuild these batteries and he is very popular with a lot of cabbies. If they are used a lot as in taxis, they will probably last as long as the vehicle they are in anyway.

Trying not sound like a smug city dweller (I was born and grew up on a farm -I'm still a country boy and always will be!) but all our power, liquid fuels and gas (here in Auckland) comes in either by pipeline or cable and there is really no need for transporting dangerous fuels long distances because we have plenty of oil in this country which is being spirited overseas in order to get the maximum prices then is sold back to us.
Anyway it was from the piped gas supply that we obtained the gas for the ill fated CNG enterprise.

Whether the compressed air car is a successful concept from an engineering perspective or not, I believe that trying to coax the general public to accept it would be a mammoth task!

Really they pipes CNG all around the whole North island.
Getting the public to accept Air would be easy
It could make any sound you like from Whoosh whosh crackle pop for the Boy racer to guttural V8 for the Bogans. Or be silent for the Pensioners.
Also note where all that power for the Northern island comes from.

[husaberg]

Now, if we're discussing inappropriate materials...

Is that the Norman Hayes I am thinking of?

Ps Hardwood is the best material ever for a post driver cap.

[Ocean1]

Is that the Norman Hayes I am thinking of?

Ps Hardwood is the best material ever for a post driver cap.

The proud owner of a family heirloom sporting the world's only bedpan silencer?

Probably. Have you never been to Inverrcarrrrrgill?

Oh, and aye, you can't beat hickory for shit like that.

[husaberg]

The proud owner of a family heirloom sporting the world's only bedpan silencer?

Probably. Have you never been to Inverrcarrrrrgill?

Oh, and aye, you can't beat hickory for shit like that.

Only as a kid, Norman Hayes had all of Berts Monroes Stuff.

[Ocean1]

Only as a kid, Norman Hayes had all of Berts Monroes Stuff.

Still does. The whole original wall of "offerings to the god of speed" lives in the museum part of the shop.

The shop was one of not many places I remembered when I went back there after neigh on 35 years.

[WilDun]

Really they pipes CNG all around the whole North island.
Also note where all that power for the Northern island comes from.

They don't pipe CNG round the North Island, they pipe natural gas.

Yes and we steal all that power from you! - right? - But please don't take all that to heart Husa.

Good video on Cuba, but I think Kiwis would be equally capable given the same situation.

OCEAN
I think that Norman Hayes engine is definitely Kiwiana! an example of the pioneering spirit of New Zealand, second only to the pioneering spirit found on the ESE forum!

[husaberg]

They don't pipe CNG round the North Island, they pipe natural gas.

Yes and we steal all that power from you! - right? - But please don't take all that to heart Husa.

Good video on Cuba, but I think Kiwis would be equally capable given the same situation.

OCEAN
I think that Norman Hayes engine is definitely Kiwiana! an example of the pioneering spirit of New Zealand, second only to the pioneering spirit found on the ESE forum!

I think you missed my point Will.

[WilDun]

I think you missed my point Will.

Oh well, just off to bed now, so I'll check it out again tomorrow and I'm sure what I missed will come to me! In recent times, the old brainpower tends to diminish late at night!



Update: It's morning again, still none the wiser, I'm probably suffering some sort of brain fog, but that's life at the 'winter' end I guess! In the early summer of my life I would have had the Ryger enigma on ESE all sussed by now!

[smmudd83_1999]

I read an article in the Uk's Motorcycle Sport and Leisure (when are we ever going to make a rag half as interesting and informative?) that BMW have lodged patents for a W3 engine in early 2015. There are two patents under BMW - the 75 degree (i.e. for all 3 cylinders), and a quite-narrow-considering-there's three-cylinders-in-there 65 degree engine. I should say these will be mounted longitudinally. BMW Motorrad has stated that they are considering a re-entry into the US cruiser/bagger market since the R1200C was halted in 2004.
They were looking at using the K1600 six cylinder in a sort of "bagger" type bike like the cut down Honda GoldWing F6B. But I think they said they need a point of difference rather than going head to head with Honda with a very similar bike. And they didn't think the current boxer twin, parrellel twin, transverse fours were engine platforms they would use for it.

I've seen this before. Guzzi looked at a transverse W3...which would be pretty cool as you wouldn't notice the extra cylinder behind the front wheel, eh? And they were going to keep to their 90 degree format, too. That was way back in the 70's.

And there was an American chap who made a Harley-looking machine with an extra cylinder near flat in front, so another 45 degree cylinder added. Can't remember the final displacement, but I think it made something nuts like 145bhp - which may not sound THAT impressive - and a whopping 174lbft torque. I think performance was approx 150 MILES per hr at just 5500rpm. That is our national speed limit at 2200/2300 rpm. Chugga chugga chugga. His name was Feuling (?) He died over 10 years ago, now - but at the time he was taking limited orders and making bikes to request. I think that makes him the only man to have actually manufactured a W3 to date?

[WilDun]

I read an article in the Uk's Motorcycle Sport and Leisure (when are we ever going to make a rag half as interesting and informative?) that BMW have lodged patents for a W3 engine in early 2015.

I've seen this before. Guzzi looked at a transverse W3...which would be pretty cool as you wouldn't notice the extra cylinder behind the front wheel, eh? I think it made something nuts like 145bhp - which may not sound THAT impressive - and a whopping 174lbft torque. I think performance was approx 150 MILES per hr at just 5500rpm. His name was Feuling (?) makes him the only man to have actually manufactured a W3 to date?

From memory (as opposed to Googling), there was only one successful (very successful) 'W' configuration and that was the Napier Lion engine (albeit 12 cylinder, ie 3 banks of 4). The Guzzi did look compact and impressive also promising, but it never happened. As you say the cylinder wouldn't be noticed behind the front wheel - I think it would need to be seen just to show it was different, although I'd say the beat of the engine might give it away!
How do all those power figures compare with the big 2.2 litre Triumph Triple? and was it really successful commercially? - what happened to it? - I've only ever seen one, it was parked outside a pub.

[husaberg]

Kiwis aye.
The toothpaste engine.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article...-Engine&A=1280