Oddball engines and prototypes

[J.A.W.]

& a sensible bloke named Smith in Mapua - saved a Mosquito ( & others) from that fate..
( I was fortunate enough to be invited to climb into the cockpit of his Mossie,& its a very businesslike office)..

Keith Park saved the Spitfire that is in the Auckland W.M. Museum, but too bad he didn't grab a Tempest instead..

There were quite a few Spitfires saved, but the Poms scrapped every Typhoon & Tempest they had..
The only intact survivors ( only 1 Typhoon, ) were elsewhere, & the Sabre Tempest in the RAF Museum was roughly
cobbled together out of scrapped components - after belated realisation that they had'nt kept - one - left intact..

They smashed many of their interesting prototypes too, no Spiteful, MB-5, Sabre-Fury, or even a Hornet, was saved..


Mind you, I read years ago that when the RAF completed the Tempest F6 'tropical trials' in Sudan, the unused spare Sabre
mills, still gease packed in their factory crates, were simply dumped into the Nile off the end of the military pier in Khartoum..

Anyone feel like a fishing trip? So what's Sir Peter Jackson doing.. he can afford it, & he could make a doco of the expedition..

[husaberg]

& a sensible bloke named Smith in Mapua - saved a Mosquito ( & others) from that fate..
( I was fortunate enough to be invited to climb into the cockpit of his Mossie,& its a very businesslike office)..

Keith Park saved the Spitfire that is in the Auckland W.M. Museum, but too bad he didn't grab a Tempest instead..

There were quite a few Spitfires saved, but the Poms scrapped every Typhoon & Tempest they had..
The only intact survivors ( only 1 Typhoon, ) were elsewhere, & the Sabre Tempest in the RAF Museum was roughly
cobbled together out of scrapped components - after belated realisation that they had'nt kept - one - left intact..

They smashed many of their interesting prototypes too, no Spiteful, MB-5, Sabre-Fury, or even a Hornet, was saved..


Mind you, I read years ago that when the RAF completed the Tempest F6 'tropical trials' in Sudan, the unused spare Sabre
mills, still gease packed in their factory crates, were simply dumped into the Nile off the end of the military pier in Khartoum..

Anyone feel like a fishing trip? So what's Sir Peter Jackson doing.. he can afford it, & he could make a doco of the expedition..

There was a bunch of aussies I think that were looking for Jungle buried kittyhawks or spitfires never heard what happened, from memory the poms wrapped and buried them when the war was going bad.
Aussie had a heap of Mosquitos that were scrapped, that Merlin that was made into a v twin bike in Aussie in the early 70's was from a mozzy I think.

[husaberg]

& a sensible bloke named Smith in Mapua - saved a Mosquito ( & others) from that fate..
( I was fortunate enough to be invited to climb into the cockpit of his Mossie,& its a very businesslike office)..

Keith Park saved the Spitfire that is in the Auckland W.M. Museum, but too bad he didn't grab a Tempest instead..

There were quite a few Spitfires saved, but the Poms scrapped every Typhoon & Tempest they had..
The only intact survivors ( only 1 Typhoon, ) were elsewhere, & the Sabre Tempest in the RAF Museum was roughly
cobbled together out of scrapped components - after belated realisation that they had'nt kept - one - left intact..

They smashed many of their interesting prototypes too, no Spiteful, MB-5, Sabre-Fury, or even a Hornet, was saved..


Mind you, I read years ago that when the RAF completed the Tempest F6 'tropical trials' in Sudan, the unused spare Sabre
mills, still gease packed in their factory crates, were simply dumped into the Nile off the end of the military pier in Khartoum..

Anyone feel like a fishing trip? So what's Sir Peter Jackson doing.. he can afford it, & he could make a doco of the expedition..

There was a bunch of aussies I think that were looking for Jungle buried kittyhawks or spitfires never heard what happened, from memory the poms wrapped and buried them when the war was going bad.
Aussie had a heap of Mosquitos that were scrapped, that Merlin that was made into a v twin bike in Aussie in the early 70's was from a mozzy I think.
googles later

They found them but they were poms
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-years.html

[J.A.W.]

Quite a few of the R-R 'Merlins' still about are actually ex-Centurion tank 'Meteor' mills, (unsupercharged )..

Aussies built Mosquitos, Mustangs & Merlins too, most of the RNZAF Mossies were ex-RAAF, AFAIR..

But there are fewer than 15 Sabres known to exist - reasonably intact - & none running, from ~5,000 built, sadly enough..


I think that Burma story is BS though.. ( SS/Nazi gold train buried in tunnel, anyone?)

Poms didn't let any Spit fighter squadrons outside of Blighty 'til after they'd lost Burma,
& post-war, the Burmese AF also flew late Spits, so they'd use any surplus stuff to be found there too..

[WilDun]

They found them but they were poms
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-years.html

Husa,
What? Skeletons?
Last I heard was that guy had got financial backing for the search from a rich (but fickle) Russian, who eventually withdrew when he found that progress was too slow.
Also it seems that the 'cache' is under the main runway of an ex wartime airfield (now an airport) - but if that's true, you can bet that there will be a lot of money needing to be coughed up before they would actually be allowed to remove them. Maybe there have been other developments since, but that's the last I heard.

[J.A.W.]

Well, finding Sabres dropped off a pier into the Nile - is a location that's maybe more easily pinpointed..

Anyhow, back to bikes..

Here is the service manual for the Kawasaki H2R F 750 racer from ~40 years ago..

Check out the running in schedule.. www.3cyl.com/mraxl/manuals/h2r/h2rservice.pdf

[WilDun]

I've seen the photos of them being burnt, the Ashburton Aviation museum has some some, a lot of the motors were sold for scrap

I dunno, - who the hell could cut up a Merlin for scrap, even in those days? - Money hungry animals!

Everything I once knew as the latest thing (including the 750 Kawasaki) is now being dug up and closely examined like an ancient curiosity! - Says something doesn't it!

[J.A.W.]

Post war, even new, unused Allison V12s were affordable as scrap value - on the basis of their high silver content bearing shells..

Have a look in Len Southward's museum, he used those big surplus-to-service aero-mills as race-boat power-plants.

[husaberg]

Post war, even new, unused Allison V12s were affordable as scrap value - on the basis of their high silver content bearing shells..

Have a look in Len Southward's museum, he used those big surplus-to-service aero-mills as race-boat power-plants.

Everyone forgets how long material rationing went one post war like the Landrovers folded chassis and aluminium body were done that way because box section and sheet steel were rationed the fergies had a lot of aluminium as that was not rationed as much. (talking pom land here) Even the food I think was still rationed until the 50's.
The power supply were I lived until the 50's was provided by a huge WW1 Uboat engine that they got as reparations.
I never seen it but I have seen pics of the rings it was huge. You could stand in the bores.

[J.A.W.]

Yeah, the poor bloody Poms would've starved/frozen if it wasn't for all the quality sheep products sent from downunder..

& all the British hot, hi-po, shiny chromed stuff went stateside.. Poms got crappily painted, low compression shit..

Even at the end of the `60s - the Yanks got the new BSA/Triumph triples 1st, while Poms had to wait..
..wait until the Yanks said nah, those things are so fugly,
- you gotta put some classic Lightning/Bonnie tanks & pipes on 'em - or we don't want 'em..

[WilDun]

- you gotta put some classic Lightning/Bonnie tanks & pipes on 'em - or we don't want 'em..

That was the big downfall in all their industries, the high and mighty directors it seemed, refused to recognize the Americans all important (stupid maybe) need for a " seen to be " society and so missed out big time to Japan!
The great Geoff Duke would agree with that, that's what he found after moving from Norton to Gilera and spending a lot of time in Italy!

[J.A.W.]

Credit to poor ol' Norton there, since they sensibly dropped the old-fashioned 'Featherbed' chassis for the isolastic Commando..
& lost the 'Fastback' look too, when the Yanks wouldn't buy it..

Even went lurid metal-flake/bright primary colours & hi-pipes ( & Hi-Rider! Factory Chopper!)
- when the Yanks said they did want 'em ( but kept the classy black 'n' gold classic look option too)..

Too bad about the 'Combat' debacle, when they were steadily improving the ol' darlin', otherwise..

A decent Commando could always whip a Honda 750/4 on-road performance-wise, too..

( It just needed an understanding, sympathetic fettler as owner/operator, eh Brit-bike fans)..


Check out the dyno charts - of the bikes from that era - as tested, here.. http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/artic...uperbikes2.htm

[WilDun]

Credit to poor ol' Norton there, since they sensibly dropped the old-fashioned 'Featherbed' chassis for the isolastic Commando..
& lost the 'Fastback' look too, when the Yanks wouldn't buy it..

Even went lurid metal-flake/bright primary colours & hi-pipes ( & Hi-Rider! Factory Chopper!)
- when the Yanks said they did want 'em ( but kept the classy black 'n' gold classic look option too)..

A decent Commando could always whip a Honda 750/4 on-road performance-wise, too..

( It just needed an understanding, sympathetic fettler as owner/operator, eh Brit-bike fans)..


Check out the dyno charts - of the bikes from that era - as tested, here.. http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/artic...uperbikes2.htm

Yes I had a ride on a Commando (think it might've been a Combat actually) and I must say I was highly impressed!, but I did still like my old (featherbed) Dominator 600 though! - never did try an Atlas, but I guess it probably shook!
However, on a short circuit street circuit such as we have here, my 250 Suzuki could blow all the big twins into the weeds, even if the frame did behave like a bucking bronco! - However,that was how it was in those days and I guess that's why the (fickle) American market rejected the ones we are talking about - didn't matter what colour (or is it color?) you painted them, how well they handled, or how impressive the power curve was, they all wanted Hondas and Kawasakis - sheep mentality I guess!
Look how the Harley is revered over there (and here) - heard one American guy declare that the Harley is the fastest motorcycle in the world! - I didn't hear him say anything on the handling.

The Isolastic suspension on the Commando was really just a compromise to stave off the evil day when they would have to listen to Dr. Lanchester about his ideas on balance shafts! as was the spherical rollers on the mains used to allow flexing of the crankshaft.
Also true, a good fettler was needed to maintain the "corral" of a frame which kept that mighty beast of an engine confined!

[husaberg]

Credit to poor ol' Norton there, since they sensibly dropped the old-fashioned 'Featherbed' chassis for the isolastic Commando..
& lost the 'Fastback' look too, when the Yanks wouldn't buy it..

Even went lurid metal-flake/bright primary colours & hi-pipes ( & Hi-Rider! Factory Chopper!)
- when the Yanks said they did want 'em ( but kept the classy black 'n' gold classic look option too)..

Too bad about the 'Combat' debacle, when they were steadily improving the ol' darlin', otherwise..

A decent Commando could always whip a Honda 750/4 on-road performance-wise, too..

( It just needed an understanding, sympathetic fettler as owner/operator, eh Brit-bike fans)..


Check out the dyno charts - of the bikes from that era - as tested, here.. http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/artic...uperbikes2.htm

Small but important point
The Honda had a disk brake
An electric starter
A five speed gearbox
4 cylinders
Was OHC.
Was more reliable
The design ie was not was directly based on a 1940's 500 twin.
It was also likely cheaper (It certainly was cheaper than a 750/3)
Likely had a better warranty

[J.A.W.]

Those things mattered to some people H, but in America, as here, in the`70s bike sales boomed..

The Mach III that came out in `69 with the Honda 750, had no electric start, or disc brake,
but it could drag it off, & cost ~50% less..

& The Z1 had all those things when it came out in `72, & even so, commanded a significant price premium over the Honda..

Just like in NZ, there were buyers who wouldn't buy Jap.. no matter what.. & others who'd buy the quickest thing..

Others yet wanted the style,chrome & sound, or perceived prestige.. H-D have made a living out of that ever since..
It would be a joke to see a Sportster ( that still looks much the same as back then) in a "Superbike" comparo now..

& Will, I passed my licence roadtest on a mate's Dommie 88, the examiner cop noting that they were "quality" machines!