Oddball engines and prototypes

[husaberg]

Sure, but Yam went proddy 4V ( TX 500) in the early `70s - 'bout the same time as Honda did ( XL 2/350).. so what was the 5V really about?

Big noting.. or TBO valve clearance-wise..

At the time Yamaha were in a technology war with Honda.

[J.A.W.]

At the time Yamaha were in a technology war with Honda.

"At the time..."? As opposed to when?

[husaberg]

"At that time"? As opposed to when?

In the early eighty's around 82 Yamaha launched an all out attack on Hondas market share.
There was an explosion in number of models from Yamaha. It went on for about 4 years Yamaha lost.
They were both likely losing money but Honda had deeper pockets.
Its been pretty well documented in the industry.
Think back to how many different models and engine sizes and new bikes every few years there was then and now.

[J.A.W.]

Yamaha had won the 2T VS 4T G.P. war with Honda in the `60s..
But their early 4T efforts didn't work out so well..

Their "would be better Commando" TX 750 fell over as a Honda 750/4 rival..

& they didn't really show any impressive 4T effort 'til the `78 XS 1100..

( & I have respect for that behemoth.. having done a significantly sub 7 hour cruise from Auck-to-Well on one),
That big tank was good for non-stop range compared to an H2's high speed thirst.. I can testify..

[husaberg]

Yamaha had won the 2T VS 4T G.P. war with Honda in the `60s..
But their early 4T efforts didn't work out so well..

Their "would be better Commando" TX 750 fell over as a Honda 750/4 rival..

& they didn't really show any impressive 4T effort 'til the `78 XS 1100..

( & I have respect for that behemoth.. having done a significantly sub 7 hour cruise from Auck-to-Well on one),
That big tank was good for non-stop range compared to an H2's high speed thirst.. I can testify..

Not really with you on that one Honda won more championships by a long way.
Honda did throw a lot more money at it though.
Honda couldn't stay competitive when the gears and cylinder sizes went down regardless.
If they had have stayed in they would have had to go 2 stroke and that would have been only a last resort.
Yamaha had the better of them near the end granted.

[J.A.W.]

Nah, Honda stayed 4T bent.. & pulled out of G.P.s in the `60s..

Yamaha won G.P.s through the `70s, & when Honda came back at the end of the decade, with their super-expensive NR 4T.. they failed..

It was only when they employed their 2T MX-tech with the NS G.P. bikes.. in the `80s - that they won a 500 title..

[husaberg]

Nah, Honda stayed 4T bent.. & pulled out of G.P.s in the `60s..

Yamaha won G.P.s through the `70s, & when Honda came back at the end of the decade, with their super-expensive NR 4T.. thet failed..

It was only when they employed their 2T MX-tech with the NS G.P. bikes.. in the `80s - that they won a 500 title..

Remember Yamaha officially pulled out as well.
They just supported some teams lol
Honda played a bit with endurance and MX. Elsinore remember.
As Honda say the Nr was a design and get experience exercise for the young engineers have a lok who is running HRC and they are all from the NR team.
The NR introduced side mounted radiators USD forks 16inch wheels carbon disks carbon body work, slipper clutches.
it was likely the only time a young group of engineers were let loose to do anything they wanted.
They then did what they could have done all along make a 2t better than everyone else straight away. NS500

[J.A.W.]

Honda won the Daytona 200 with their CR 750/4 in 1970..

Yamaha won it every year from `72 'til the next decade..

Yamaha TR/TZ racers were the staple..for privateers.. not Honda.. in the `70s..

Honda never enters motorsport without intent to win..

NS 500 only got the gig.. after NSR was proven an expensive failure.. & face saving was needful.. even at the cruel psychic expense of going 2T..

& 2Ts don't need "slipper clutch".

[husaberg]

Honda won the Daytona 200 with their CR 750/4 in 1970..

Yamaha won it every year from `72 'til the next decade..

Yamaha TR/TZ racers were the staple..for privateers.. not Honda.. in the `70s..

Honda never enters motorsport without intent to win..

I don't think that's true look at the EXP
Plus the NR
They want to win, but there way.
Like I said Honda were on MX and endurance.
Look at Yamahas results since 1995 its pretty grim reading other than Rossi

[J.A.W.]

Really? What did Honda make of the EXP? It vanished..

NR did what?

& George might take issue with you G.P. results-wise..

Stoner could win on most anything..

[husaberg]

Really? What did Honda make of the EXP? It vanished..

NR did what?

& George might take issue with you G.P. results-wise..

Stoner could win on most anything..

The EXP was about trying clean and FI the CRM used the trapping valve.
The NR slipper clutch carbon disks high rev research v4 tech USD small wheels.
Yeah fair call.

[J.A.W.]

The EXP was about trying clean and FI the CRM used the trapping valve.
The NR slipper clutch carbon disks high rev research v4 tech USD small wheels.
Yeah fair call.

I'd have paid for a proddy EXP.. I did have a go on a CRM.. it was a bit soft.. but that was/is Honda.. 'cept for their compy stuff..

[husaberg]

I'd have paid for a proddy EXP.. I did have a go on a CRM.. it was a bit soft.. but that was/is Honda.. 'cept for their compy stuff..

Could you hear it knocking or was it just like a soft 2t trailie

[J.A.W.]

Soft compared to a 2T MX, but oddly flexible for a trail/enduro..

Too be fair.. I was owner/operating a KTM 380 EXC at the time..

[husaberg]

Persevered for 20 years...till they could abandon it without losing face.

Have you still got the cameron stuff about 5V ? i'm assuming an analysis of the FZR ? I've never seen it and if you were quoting him re compression and burning, he got it wrong IMO...I've built quite a few of the bastards and have my own ideas about what's wrong with the layout.

A lot of the early Yamaha 2V stuff is very Toyota in the port layout. Inlets too big and ex too small. The 5V suffers from the same imbalance.

I have posted it here hi def
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/al...p?albumid=4977

And Here below low res

click on three times
As I said water damaged and missing last page I think
I had some others as well
But paints a rosy picture he was later very scathing of it ESP the IGN lead required with any decent Comp
I will email it to you Greg