Oddball engines and prototypes

[ken seeber]

Back to rotary valves, there are also a couple more from good old Oz. One of these is the Dunstan rotary valve, done in the 50s and adapted to the Holden grey motor. This is on display at the motor museum at the Bathurst track, near you JAW.



The other is the Bishop valve. Rather than using flats on the valve shaft, the Bishop is an axial flow design with exhaust and inlet coming in from opposite ends of the near fully hollow shaft. I think that it is pretty similar to the Norton valve, but the reason for its technical success is the sealing arrangement, which like a piston ring, is pressure activated. This is still being commercially pursued, possibly for a racing application.

[tjbw]

Back to rotary valves, there are also a couple more from good old Oz. One of these is the Dunstan rotary valve, done in the 50s and adapted to the Holden grey motor. This is on display at the motor museum at the Bathurst track, near you JAW.



The other is the Bishop valve. Rather than using flats on the valve shaft, the Bishop is an axial flow design with exhaust and inlet coming in from opposite ends of the near fully hollow shaft. I think that it is pretty similar to the Norton valve, but the reason for its technical success is the sealing arrangement, which like a piston ring, is pressure activated. This is still being commercially pursued, possibly for a racing application.

I thought the Coates Spherical Rotary Valve was developed in Australia. However they now seem to be based in USA, with manufacturing in China.

http://www.coatesengine.com/csrv-system.html

[WilDun]

The Coates engine has been on the go for a lot of years now and there is a lot which has been said and a lot of illustrations and accolades - so why has it not actually gone into production?
Is it possible that the good old established poppet valve is holding it's own and manufacturers are comfortable with the money flowing in - Guess they already have something tried and true and don't want to take any risks starting something completely new.
NSU got caught out and sunk by taking on production of the Wankel Engine after all!

[J.A.W.]

NSU got caught out and sunk by taking on production of the Wankel Engine after all!

No W-D, the VW group bought NSU & incorporated them into Audi in `69, but the Ro 80 lasted 'til `77..

Not that any Wankel rotary piston powered production machine has ever been really successful for its makers,
except as a niche/novelty unit & in certain motorsports/flight applications - where its inherent power-to-weight
works to overcome its other serious limitations..

Curious that the Wankel unit never made the cut in application as a marine mill though..

There are suggestions that Toyo Kogyo ( 'Mazda')may do a new production run of 'em, fitted with DFI..

[J.A.W.]

Curious that the Wankel unit never made the cut in application as a marine mill though..

OMC ( Evinrude) did build a prototype Wankel-rotary piston outboard - back in the late `60s/early `70s period when the popularity
of the design was at its peak, but like most of 'em, never made it to market..

Here is an interesting big V12 mill currently being developed for boat racing..

http://www.enginelabs.com/news-aarde...oplane-racing/

[peewee]

has someone seem one of these first hand ?

[pete376403]

This one shown up yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_lifeboat_engine

[tjbw]

This one shown up yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_lifeboat_engine

That's an oddball!

It's a two cylinder, opposed piston, uniflow two stroke.

There are two crankshafts, six pistons (including two pumping pistons), two spark plugs.

A third cylinder, has two double-acting opposed pistons, which pump the mixture into the other two cylinders.

If only Vincent and Irving had continued development!

One of these very rare engines sold a week ago for just US$28,750.

More info and photos on the auction page:

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23131/lot/154/

I'm not sure how long that page will be available.

[Grumph]

That's an oddball!

It's a two cylinder, opposed piston, uniflow two stroke.

There are two crankshafts, six pistons (including two pumping pistons), two spark plugs.

A third cylinder, has two double-acting opposed pistons, which pump the mixture into the other two cylinders.

If only Vincent and Irving had continued development!

One of these very rare engines sold a week ago for just US$28,750.

They didn't get into production AFAIK because they were too complex and cost too much to make. Typical Vincent.
We had the one which did get made in a yacht as an auxiliary engine. Much more compact, fitted under the cockpit floor easily, single hole in the keelson, feathering prop. And from memory the old man paid about 20 quid for it. Can't remember who made it, think it was made in the US. Twin opposed 2 stroke anyway.

[ken seeber]

There's a bit more on the Vincent marine engine here. http://thekneeslider.com/vincent-500...stroke-engine/

[WilDun]

There's a bit more on the Vincent marine engine here. http://thekneeslider.com/vincent-500...stroke-engine/

Probably missed something earlier on, but I guess it has a crankshaft at each end like the Junkers Jumo (or Neil's early prototype).
I wonder why they didn't go for the Sultzer/Commer arrangement with one crank and rockers, cheaper and more compact maybe?

[Grumph]

What may interest neil is that the pumping pistons were double acting hence the rods had to be sealed. This was done by a combination of piston-ring type seals and lipped rubber seals. "Connecting rod sidethrust being taken by integral cross- heads". The bottom end was plain bearing, pressure lubricated hence the use of pumping cylinders.
Can't find a cutaway drawing but Irving goes into detail in Two Stroke Power Units.

[WilDun]

What may interest neil is that the pumping pistons were double acting hence the rods had to be sealed.
Can't find a cutaway drawing but Irving goes into detail in Two Stroke Power Units.

Would like to see a drawing of some sort too, but no doubt most of the available guff on it (if any) disappeared after the war.
There is a slight difference between 3000 rpm for this engine and Neil's expectation of 30,000 rpm! so maybe the sealing would need to be a little different!

[husaberg]

Anyone speak Japanese...........
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/eiichivr/68631330.htm

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...ections-23.jpg

http://www.micapeak.com/winona/strange/wooler1-s.gif

[WilDun]

The very last pic, if I'm not mistaken/ is the Wooler motorcycle engine, made in Britain between the wars.

Here it is :- https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=wo...WljQmVVhAQk%3D