Oddball engines and prototypes

[tjbw]

No idea re the conrod
This might help with the Suspension
one pivot is under the spring the other has a shiny colver cover the bracing is below the pivot just above the exhaust
Attachment 329749Attachment 329750Attachment 329751Attachment 329753

BUGGER IT GOOGLE
Attachment 329754
Attachment 329755
GEAR PRIMARY DRIVE AS WELL AS UNIT CONSTRUCTION
http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/n...937-engine.jpg
Well worth a look through
http://cybermotorcycle.com/

Donald Bastow published, in proceedings of Institute of Mechanical Engineers, a detailed account of W. O. Bentley's contribution to the aero and motor industries. It included an image of a Lagonda 2.6L engine featuring conrods with "integral" bolts. In fact it looks like the rod is tapped for standard bolts! The engine was also used in some early Aston Martin cars.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

The suspension images do indeed help, though I still don't see a cantilever in there.

I found some more information on the suspensions in the NZ Bike Rider Magazine:

http://www.brm.co.nz/cantilever-suspension/

They report that NSU were using a single shock in 1909, about same time as Flying Merkel!

BTW Phil Vincent must have been preparing his rear suspension patent application when he was about 18 years old!

[Michael Moore]

Since I just sold off all of mine I should have remembered the Motobi has that gearbox design and so does the H-D Sportster.

[Flettner]

You have to wonder, don't you, how HD with the thinnest engine in the world (fork and blade rod set) managed to squander this attribute and now produce the fattest and lowest bikes know to man. I guess good for the US interstate only! Back roads of NZ, I don't think so.

[Ocean1]

You have to wonder, don't you, how HD with the thinnest engine in the world (fork and blade rod set) managed to squander this attribute and now produce the fattest and lowest bikes know to man. I guess good for the US interstate only! Back roads of NZ, I don't think so.

You'd think. But...

[WilDun]

You'd think. But...

Don't forget the wheelbase and compressed suspension scenario!

Anyway they are definitely survivors, however they've done it, but I'm not sure if it's because the riders are actually interested in bikes, or it's just "the thing to be" (ie a dedicated follower of fashion who loves bells and whistles.... oh, and frills).

You have to wonder, don't you, how HD with the thinnest engine in the world (fork and blade rod set) managed to squander this attribute and now produce the fattest and lowest bikes know to man.

I think that forked conrod arrangement was also used with great success in the Daimler Benz inverted V12 engine in the Messerschmitt 109 as well.

[Ocean1]

Don't forget the wheelbase and compressed suspension scenario!

Aye, but there's enough clearance at that angle, (which is simply Mr Michelin's recommended max) to allow for suspension compression.

When I took that pic I was horrified, I figured I'd never go anywhere near that. A couple of weeks later I broke the hero knob off the LH peg.

[Frits Overmars]

Aye, but there's enough clearance at that angle... When I took that pic I was horrified, I figured I'd never go anywhere near that.
A couple of weeks later I broke the hero knob off the LH peg.

You mean while riding? Or with a wrench?
Which reminds me of the bloke who took an angle grinder to the sides of his boots in order to give them a more respectable appearance.
One small error: he ground the insides...

[Ocean1]

You mean while riding? Or with a wrench?
Which reminds me of the bloke who took an angle grinder to the sides of his boots in order to give them a more respectable appearance.
One small error: he ground the insides...

No, riding, although there was a small rock involved so it would have been less than the angle in the pic.

I always wondered about how useful those knobs were, I mean by the time you touch you're already fully aware that you're pushing your luck, the last thing you need is some very noisy and extremely tactile confirmation to distract you from the business of surviving the corner.

There's little wear on my boots, and being well pigeon toed it's closer to the toes than might be quite normal.

[WilDun]

Aye, but there's enough clearance at that angle, (which is simply Mr Michelin's recommended max) to allow for suspension compression.

When I took that pic I was horrified, I figured I'd never go anywhere near that. A couple of weeks later I broke the hero knob off the LH peg.

Yes and I can see by the tyres that you are telling the truth!
Perhaps it's just a myth that the Harley can't corner - almost as big as the myth of the Harley itself! - I'm afraid I'll never find out as I'm so stuffed now and I daren't even think about throwing a leg over! - do you wear frills? - that's probably the one thing that I don't understand.

[husaberg]

Yes, I was meaning the new Imperial - wonder who the designer was - forward thinking!



How the hell did HD manage to keep going for so many years without actually thinking ahead? Mind you, those gearboxes still make some sense when you can actually keep them in top gear almost forever!

Maybe a lot of companies tried too hard to change everything, when it perhaps didn't need changing! look at those fantastic racing machines of the sixties, I (and a lot of others) loved to watch and listen to them but they were totally useless for your average rider to enjoy having a replica to take on the road!
We were all pissed off when the 125's were restricted to 6 speed and 1 cylinder but maybe they (the rulemakers) did us a favour and made us find other ways to wring out more torque and higher power as well! - bucket racing is still keeping a lot of people happy trying to do just that!
Maybe the environmentalist are doing the same, eventually forcing us to clean up our act and making some innovative discoveries on the way! - look at how quiet but still powerful bikes are now compared to 25 years ago (except HD of course, but I heard they eventually had to go and have a quiet word with Porsche!).

Now if we had a big efficient V2 two stroke with fuel injection, no smoke and no huge exhausts and able to pass all the emission tests........ no?.......maybe not! Has the two stroke gone forever or is there still a niche for it? - we'll just have to rely on Flettner and one or two others to get around that one!

http://www.newimperial.co.uk/history.html

As for the harleys they are for nostalgia lovers Of the 1950's.
With clever marketing they actually created a cult.
On the evo engines they actually modified the die castings to look like rough sand cast finish.
They also were one of the last engines i have heard of that were actually selective fit with the gears etc.

[ken seeber]

One small error: he ground the insides...

If that happened in Oz, old mate would just swap the boots over to the opposite foot.

As to con rods with the bolts integral with the rod, I'm aghast. The cost to mfg plus the fact that the strength of the "bolt" would be far less that any big end bolt made from a forging. Unless there was some other reason, which would have to be good.

I do remember an article in Cycle World, where I think Gordon Jennings once rode some fast Harley. He commented that someone wrongly said they flexed a lot, because he said it didn't flex at all due to the fact that it had a hinge in the middle.

[husaberg]

If that happened in Oz, old mate would just swap the boots over to the opposite foot.

As to con rods with the bolts integral with the rod, I'm aghast. The cost to mfg plus the fact that the strength of the "bolt" would be far less that any big end bolt made from a forging. Unless there was some other reason, which would have to be good.

I do remember an article in Cycle World, where I think Gordon Jennings once rode some fast Harley. He commented that someone wrongly said they flexed a lot, because he said it didn't flex at all due to the fact that it had a hinge in the middle.

The believe best modern cost effective conrods are made with special bolts normally apr and dowels to locate the caps instead of the bolts and made one piece then sheared with a serated line.
I have no idea how they do the serated line.

[Grumph]

The believe best modern cost effective conrods are made with special bolts normally apr and dowels to locate the caps instead of the bolts and made one piece then sheared with a serated line.
I have no idea how they do the serated line.

The best way to do it is to grind a narrow vee where you want the part line and simply break it off. The natural serrations of the break are ideal for location.

The only other example of integral rod bolts I can find is the Hercules Engine company who used it on at least some of their products. They were a US industrial engine maker at their peak in the 30's. They seem to have been somewhat oddball too in some of their engines.
While the American SAE standardised rod bolt sizes and proportions around 1930, what was available was by no means up to todays standards.
Forging the bolts integral with the rod at least got you a good quality Silchrome steel, probably better than what was available over the counter at the time.
And, hey. labour was cheap...

[husaberg]

The best way to do it is to grind a narrow vee where you want the part line and simply break it off. The natural serrations of the break are ideal for location.

The only other example of integral rod bolts I can find is the Hercules Engine company who used it on at least some of their products. They were a US industrial engine maker at their peak in the 30's. They seem to have been somewhat oddball too in some of their engines.
While the American SAE standardised rod bolt sizes and proportions around 1930, what was available was by no means up to todays standards.
Forging the bolts integral with the rod at least got you a good quality Silchrome steel, probably better than what was available over the counter at the time.
And, hey. labour was cheap...

Ages ago i posted something about rods... i think it had something about bolts being integral,i will have a look but i have seen something before.

[WilDun]

Ages ago i posted something about rods... i think it had something about bolts being integral,i will have a look but i have seen something before.

This fracture splitting technology isn't new, in fact I think McCulloch may have used it in their chainsaws way back, but not sure on that. Haven't seen integral bolts though.
Here is a link describing the fracturing process well:-
http://www.dieselduck.info/machine/0...%20conrods.pdf