Oddball engines and prototypes

[husaberg]

This thread goes to sleep periodically and occasionally it needs a good swift kick up the arse, so to speak in order to "kickstart" it again!
]

I was actually musing about a transfer port injection two stroke on the way home tonight, only with lpg insead of petrol/ethanol
much higher pressure so less potential loss out the exhaust.
Neil the green party needs you to try it out..........
nice cool charge, and lower emissions, better octane than petrol as well.

[Frits Overmars]

I was actually musing about a transfer port injection two stroke on the way home tonight, only with lpg insead of petrol/ethanol. much higher pressure so less potential loss out the exhaust. Neil the green party needs you to try it out. nice cool charge, and lower emissions, better octane than petrol as well.

Since Neil has both transfer port petrol injection and an Autoflight engine running on LPG at hand, we probably won't have to wait long .

[WilDun]

I was actually musing about a transfer port injection two stroke on the way home tonight, only with lpg insead of petrol/ethanol
much higher pressure so less potential loss out the exhaust.
Neil the green party needs you to try it out..........
nice cool charge, and lower emissions, better octane than petrol as well.

I was talking about HCCI although I'm sure that injection will come into it as well. Alcohol fuel whilst it has a lot of benefits (for racing) could have problems in the case of aircraft (shorter range for the same weight of fuel) and with road machinery, especially in cities where (I'm told) that alcohol fumes are detrimental to health (mainly eyes it seems).

No doubt most of you guys have watched and listened to all this guy's videos - he has a pretty good way of delivering his stuff! - The one about the "end of the two stroke" may piss a few of us off, but we have to look at all the angles to make proper a judgement!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPiFRPxlscY

I have always loved two strokes and hope that something will come up to give them a chance in the market and that includes everything from an entirely new approach to design, to the attitude of the legislators!
When steam engines disappeared after WW2 all the old guys insisted that "It'll be no good if it isn't powered by steam" and often took that attitude to the grave, I hope we don't end up like that! ........ naw of course we won't!

I haven't watched it all yet, so I will have to reserve my judgement till after I see both videos....... but it does sound interesting!

[husaberg]

I was talking about HCCI although I'm sure that injection will come into it as well. Alcohol fuel whilst it has a lot of benefits (for racing) could have problems in the case of aircraft (shorter range for the same weight of fuel) and with road machinery, especially in cities where (I'm told) that alcohol fumes are detrimental to health (mainly eyes it seems).

No doubt most of you guys have watched and listened to all this guy's videos - he has a pretty good way of delivering his stuff! - The one about the "end of the two stroke" may piss a few of us off, but we have to look at all the angles to make proper a judgement!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPiFRPxlscY

I have always loved two strokes and hope that something will come up to give them a chance in the market and that includes everything from an entirely new approach to design, to the attitude of the legislators!
When steam engines disappeared after WW2 all the old guys insisted that "It'll be no good if it isn't powered by steam" and often took that attitude to the grave, I hope we don't end up like that! ........ naw of course we won't!

I haven't watched it all yet, so I will have to reserve my judgement till after I see both videos....... but it does sound interesting!

i have posted a lot of stuff about Hondas version of HCCI
The EXP2 they controled it with the power valve position
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130353595
it looked very promising they even did a road legal production version for sale .
the CRM250ar
http://www.europeanmotorcycle-diarie...onda-ever.html
http://forums.everything2stroke.com/...sions-CRM250AR

Since Neil has both transfer port petrol injection and an Autoflight engine running on LPG at hand, we probably won't have to wait long .

I look forward to it.
Hes gone quiet so i suspect he up to something.

[lohring]

I've been a hard core two stroke guy since high school where I built a model engine in shop. Over the next 60 years I've played, tuned, tested, and destroyed a lot of engines. My emphasis has been mostly on racing and I've been involved in setting several model boat racing records. I did a lot of inertial dyno work along the way. Two strokes dominated this small engine market because they are cheap and simple. It's easy to tune them for more full throttle power. Fuel economy and emissions haven't mattered.

Now the handwriting is on the wall. Electric power is taking over in models because modern batteries and control systems are making them easier at the same cost. Soon the cost will be even lower. The fastest model boats have had electric power plants for quite a while. There's still a little development in gasoline fueled engines, thanks to low cost small weedeater engines, but open fuel engine development has stagnated.

This story, as the video points out, is starting in full size vehicles. My first experience was in 2008 when we set the full size electric boat record. The lithium polymer batteries for that boat cost $14,000 wholesale. Today you can get batteries that deliver over twice the power at less than half that cost. Road vehicles, a less demanding application, are seeing more electric vehicles. Norway, thanks to a lot of government incentives, is leading the way, but cost issues alone will start to drive the transition. Kids will look at IC engines in museums and ask grandpa how anyone could build those complicated things.

Lohring Miller

[husaberg]

I've been a hard core two stroke guy since high school where I built a model engine in shop. Over the next 60 years I've played, tuned, tested, and destroyed a lot of engines. My emphasis has been mostly on racing and I've been involved in setting several model boat racing records. I did a lot of inertial dyno work along the way. Two strokes dominated this small engine market because they are cheap and simple. It's easy to tune them for more full throttle power. Fuel economy and emissions haven't mattered.

Now the handwriting is on the wall. Electric power is taking over in models because modern batteries and control systems are making them easier at the same cost. Soon the cost will be even lower. The fastest model boats have had electric power plants for quite a while. There's still a little development in gasoline fueled engines, thanks to low cost small weedeater engines, but open fuel engine development has stagnated.

This story, as the video points out, is starting in full size vehicles. My first experience was in 2008 when we set the full size electric boat record. The lithium polymer batteries for that boat cost $14,000 wholesale. Today you can get batteries that deliver over twice the power at less than half that cost. Road vehicles, a less demanding application, are seeing more electric vehicles. Norway, thanks to a lot of government incentives, is leading the way, but cost issues alone will start to drive the transition. Kids will look at IC engines in museums and ask grandpa how anyone could build those complicated things.

Lohring Miller

Electric is seen by many to be clean, as it doesn't give off direct emissions, yet it production in most parts of the world does.
Electricity as a motive esp as a flight power souce has on big disadvantage it says the same weight as it discharges its energy as well as producing less energy as it nears full discharge
Fuel is the oposite it get lighter as it lowers its fuel load.

Your weedeater as a rc engine coment made me thing of this.

[WilDun]

Electric is seen by many to be clean, as it doesn't give off direct emissions, yet it production in most parts of the world does.

Maybe but it's pollutants aren't dumped in the middle of a city - nothing produced by humans is clean! ...... from shit to politics!

Your weedeater as a rc engine coment made me thing of this.

There are a lot more lightweight and more high performance engines (not weedeater engines) nowadays which are purpose built for model aircraft, I wouldn't be surprised to see them being built with a generator powering a motor for each propeller (on a twin or four prop model) not a lot of battery required! The two stroke still reigns supreme for power to weight ratio in aircraft (and is not suppressed by rules and legislation) - as yet!

BTW, Not meaning to belittle this guy's effort of course - he managed to build this machine for virtually sweet FA!

[husaberg]

Maybe but it's pollutants aren't dumped in the middle of a city - nothing produced by humans is clean! ...... from shit to politics!

They do say cities are densely populated.

[lohring]

Actually, the emissions from electrical power generation depend on where you live, According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, a gasoline powered car would need to get between 35 mpg in a few states and 93 mpg where I live to have equal lifetime emissions to an electric car. Their calculator says a Tesla Model S P100D produces the same warming effect as a gasoline car that gets 69 mpg in my town. Most of our power is generated by hydroelectric dams.

Lohring Miller

[Ocean1]

Actually, the emissions from electrical power generation depend on where you live, According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, a gasoline powered car would need to get between 35 mpg in a few states and 93 mpg where I live to have equal lifetime emissions to an electric car. Their calculator says a Tesla Model S P100D produces the same warming effect as a gasoline car that gets 69 mpg in my town. Most of our power is generated by hydroelectric dams.

Lohring Miller

Yes, the commonly held belief that electric is clean is simplistic at best.

Also depends when you charge it. You might be using hydro overnight, but peak demand is usually dirty, fuel oil or coal.

[WilDun]

Looks like electric is out and two strokes are in again!
Electricity here is generated mainly by hydro electric generators, but gas turbine engines based on aircraft and boat engines are also used here and are serviced by Air New Zealand, so we have the alternatives of oil or gas fired power stations, wind and increasingly solar power - we still don't use nuclear power and the wisdom of this is borne out by the events in earthquake prone Japan (which is really very similar to NZ.).

What are we going to do with all our coal now that all the mines are closing? we have good coal in the south Island and oodles of brown coal in the Waikato. They say that there is one good use for brown coal and that is for extracting steel from magnetite (black iron sand) we also have oodles of that!

........but how about HCCI two stroke engines driving electric motors via generators? - then maybe that will put all the gear makers out of business!

[husaberg]

Actually, the emissions from electrical power generation depend on where you live, According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, a gasoline powered car would need to get between 35 mpg in a few states and 93 mpg where I live to have equal lifetime emissions to an electric car. Their calculator says a Tesla Model S P100D produces the same warming effect as a gasoline car that gets 69 mpg in my town. Most of our power is generated by hydroelectric dams.

Lohring Miller

Yeah i did include a caveat, but even clean hydro is responsible for vast amounts of Methane as the vegetation underneath man made dams decomposes.
Not to mention the disposal and resources used to manufacture rear earth magnets and batteries.

Most of the objections to hydro power in NZ come from green intersts and recreational users.

What are we going to do with all our coal now that all the mines are closing? we have good coal in the south Island and oodles of brown coal in the Waikato. They say that there is one good use for !

You will always need high quality coal for manufacturing quality high carbon steel.
The mines may have closed but the mineral permits and licences have been sold off to investors.

[Niels Abildgaard]

You will always need high quality coal for manufacturing quality high carbon steel.
The mines may have closed but the mineral permits and licences have been sold off to investors.

Do not be sure

http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/inn...eel-race/81456

[husaberg]

Do not be sure

http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/inn...eel-race/81456

yeah sounds real clean

Hydrogen from what?
So where will it come from? Sweden is already one of the most progressive countries in the world in the energy transition to a fossil-free world, with 52 per cent of energy already being renewable, 40 per cent being nuclear, a target of being carbon neutral by 2050, and a policy roadmap for 2025-2050 due next January.
Vattenfall runs seven nuclear power stations in the country, but is to decommission two of them. The other five are expected to remain operational until 2040-45. The company manages plants in five northern European nations, some of which are fossil-based, but in Sweden its installed capacity generation mix is 59 per cent hydropower, 33 per cent nuclear, 1.88 per cent wind, 4.87 per cent fossil fuel and 1.31 per cent biomass and waste.

[eldog]

You will always need high quality coal for manufacturing quality high carbon steel.
The mines may have closed but the mineral permits and licences have been sold off to investors.

Closed why? The answer is all to obvious.
costing more $ to close than keep at minimum status?

investors win.

what a waste.

pike river......

i suppose in 20 years someone will write a book.

the waste, it annoys me.

rant over.