Oddball engines and prototypes

[ken seeber]

Good one Husa, missed that one. Hmmmm.....

[WilDun]

Here's a very odd looking machine.

It has 840cc V twin diesel engine (smoke generator). Both wheels have hydrostatic drive, and it also features air suspension, and twin turbochargers.

Yes ........well,......... what can you say? ......... except maybe "why doesn't he clean his air filters?" some great ideas there of course, but (to me at least) definitely a waste of his talents, - every one to his own I guess!

[pete376403]

On "Stuff" there is an article and video of a NZbuilt replica of a Gnome rotary aircraft engine. At least three have been built so far, $82k if you want one.

[husaberg]

Good one Husa, missed that one. Hmmmm.....

Telsa invented a one way valve with no moving parts at all

[Frits Overmars]

I am a great admirer of Nikola Tesla, so naturally I stumbled upon his one way valve. The problem was making it. An old lathe was all I had at my disposal at the time,
so I came up with the contraption shown below.
The red and orange parts just fit together. The red center part is held in place by some pieces of welding rod (blue in the drawing).
The drawing shows a three-step valve but you can add as many steps as you want. The lengths and diameters in the drawing were meant for the 12 mm induction tract of an F3D model engine; you can rescale them at will. The inscribed angle dimensions are independent of the diameters.
Don't be put off by the two decimals; that's just what the drawing program spat out.

Husa's video concludes with the remark "Imagine if this valve was in all the water pumps, I thinks it's safe to say they would still be working to this day".
Well, I think it's safe to say that whoever wrote this, didn't understand how the Tesla valve works and didn't even understand how the pictured water pump works.
The Tesla valve depends on accumulated pressure losses caused by the internal flow reversals and collisions. But if the flow velocity nears zero, so will the pressure losses. If you apply Tesla valves in that water pump, the water will trickle down and when you want to pump, you will first need to prime the pump with water (where from??) before it can generate sufficient suction pressure to pull water up.

[lohring]

A long time ago when electronic devices had discrete components. several companies thought fluid logic devices could compete. The Tesla valve is an example of a fluidic diode. I still have some catalogues from Pitney Bowes and Johnson Controls showing their devices. They envisioned improved machine control systems compared to the miniature mechanical air logic valves that were used. The mechanical systems survived but the fluidic devices are limited to things like pulsating shower heads these days.

Lohring Miller

[ken seeber]

I guess this fluid diode idea inspired these valves. Have no idea as to whether they are any value or not.


https://technologyelevatedco.com/ree...irst-thoughts/

[husaberg]

I am a great admirer of Nikola Tesla, so naturally I stumbled upon his one way valve. The problem was making it. An old lathe was all I had at my disposal at the time,
so I came up with the contraption shown below.
The red and orange parts just fit together. The red center part is held in place by some pieces of welding rod (blue in the drawing).
The drawing shows a three-step valve but you can add as many steps as you want. The lengths and diameters in the drawing were meant for the 12 mm induction tract of an F3D model engine; you can rescale them at will. The inscribed angle dimensions are independent of the diameters.
Don't be put off by the two decimals; that's just what the drawing program spat out.

Husa's video concludes with the remark "Imagine if this valve was in all the water pumps, I thinks it's safe to say they would still be working to this day".
Well, I think it's safe to say that whoever wrote this, didn't understand how the Tesla valve works and didn't even understand how the pictured water pump works.
The Tesla valve depends on accumulated pressure losses caused by the internal flow reversals and collisions. But if the flow velocity nears zero, so will the pressure losses. If you apply Tesla valves in that water pump, the water will trickle down and when you want to pump, you will first need to prime the pump with water (where from??) before it can generate sufficient suction pressure to pull water up.

That last part frits says is correct, if it was used as a foot valve as used in a well or sump its no good, but as a line non return valve subject to constant pressure it would operate well though.

Its best illustrated what Frits is saying here.

[Ocean1]

A long time ago when electronic devices had discrete components. several companies thought fluid logic devices could compete. The Tesla valve is an example of a fluidic diode. I still have some catalogues from Pitney Bowes and Johnson Controls showing their devices. They envisioned improved machine control systems compared to the miniature mechanical air logic valves that were used. The mechanical systems survived but the fluidic devices are limited to things like pulsating shower heads these days.

Lohring Miller

I had a bit to do with pneumatic digital logic systems for vacuum packaging equipment, which was foamed and high pressure washed every day. The same equipment still uses it, for the same reasons.

http://innovistasensors.crouzet-cont...components.pdf

I've also worked with some of those US made solid state digital logic pneumatic circuit blocks, very much based on Tesla principles for sequential "or", "not" etc elements. Haven't seen them for twenty years or more. Don't want to see them either, they were appallingly unreliable.

[lohring]

I've also worked with some of those US made solid state digital logic pneumatic circuit blocks, very much based on Tesla principles for sequential "or", "not" etc elements. Haven't seen them for twenty years or more. Don't want to see them either, they were appallingly unreliable.

That was my observation as well. However, it should be interesting as a diode in an engine intake system. Has anyone actually tried the reedless intake?

Lohring Miller

[WilDun]

Has anyone actually tried the reedless intake?
Lohring Miller

I vaguely remember a stationary engine built on that principle, - can't remember what it was called though - it'll come back to me sometime (if Husa or somebody doesn't come up with it first!).
Such an engine might have possibilities as a generator engine in a hybrid setup.

[husaberg]

I vaguely remember a stationary engine built on that principle, - can't remember what it was called though - it'll come back to me sometime (if Husa or somebody doesn't come up with it first!).
Such an engine might have possibilities as a generator engine in a hybrid setup.

That was my observation as well. However, it should be interesting as a diode in an engine intake system. Has anyone actually tried the reedless intake?

Lohring Miller

Google Frits Overmars 24/7
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-tuner/page520
http://www.pit-lane.biz/t117p480-gp1...-part-1-locked
http://www.pit-lane.biz/t117p450-gp1...-part-1-locked
http://www.pit-lane.biz/t5121p680-gp...vermars-part-4
plus there was old concrete mixer and other stationary engines etc engines that ran at constant speed.
The reeds are only needed to start and get it into the power band
If I recall correctly there was talk of a compressor being used for the old stationary engine I think Fletner mentioned it.
Frits intended on just tucking the reeds out of the way on a pivot.
I think he came upon the idea when a disk valve failed but the engine still ran perfectly as long as it was reving near peak speed.

[Frits Overmars]

Google Frits Overmars 24/7... The reeds are only needed to start and get it into the power band... Frits intended on just tucking the reeds out of the way on a pivot.
I think he came upon the idea when a disk valve failed but the engine still ran perfectly as long as it was reving near peak speed.

Perfectly would be stretching it. The carburation and the crankcase volume, inlet tract diameter and length were tuned for a 140°/65° disk timing (remember, this was 1973) and when that disk stuck open the carburation became a lot less than perfect. But it was still good enough to get me back to the pits.

[husaberg]

Perfectly would be stretching it. The carburation and the crankcase volume, inlet tract diameter and length were tuned for a 140°/65° disk timing (remember, this was 1973) and when that disk stuck open the carburation became a lot less than perfect. But it was still good enough to get me back to the pits.

Shucks I was only trying to remember what you said Frits,but it turns out my memory is less than perfect more like adequate. The same as how it ran.
I never even used the search function.
I do remember you saying you and other tuners ran some pretty extreme inlet timing on piston port engines maybe Bultacco or something, what were the numbers?
Whats the limit before it won't start or run without running the engine very fast
I think it was in reply to me quoting some Helmet Fauth text about his Phil Reads TZ

[Frits Overmars]

I do remember you saying you and other tuners ran some pretty extreme inlet timing on piston port engines maybe Bultacco or something, what were the numbers?

So your memory is not so bad after all. To my knowledge it was indeed Bultaco who used the most extreme inlet timing: 240°
(a 30 mm carb on a 250 cc engine; something had got to give and in this case it was the piston intake side skirt length).

Whats the limit before it won't start or run without running the engine very fast.

This is one of those seemingly simple but unanswerable questions. There's no limit as such; things get gradually worse. And it's not just the timing but also the crankcase volume, the carb diameter, the inlet tract length and the skill of the mechanic. But roughly I'd say that south of 190° things are becoming touchy.