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Thread: Oddball engines and prototypes

  1. #2851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    isn't it best to just banish the exhaust ports to the opposite end of the cylinder, out of harms way?
    48 x 48 x 2
    Guess if you're talking 'opposed pistonI' , then I think so too - I do like the compact Commer TS3 layout though! - (even with the James Watt style beams/rockers! ) - and if it's too hot for an A/A exhaust piston, (as you suggested earlier - in ESE?) why not use a lightweight cast steel crown?
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  2. #2852
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    [QUOTE=WilDun;1131157973]Guess if you're talking 'opposed pistonI' , then I think so too - I do like the compact Commer TS3 layout though! - (even with the James Watt style beams/rockers! ) - and if it's too hot for an A/A exhaust piston, (as you suggested earlier - in ESE?) why not use a lightweight cast

    Or made of something else.
    No cylinder heads, no balance shaft needed, no carburetors, assimetrical timing. Lots of benefits I think.
    175cc via two 48 x 48, ends up not that much taller than a standard engine if you include the spark plug and plug cap.

  3. #2853
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    [QUOTE=Flettner;1131157975]
    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Guess if you're talking 'opposed pistonI' , then I think so too - I do like the compact Commer TS3 layout though! - (even with the James Watt style beams/rockers! ) - and if it's too hot for an A/A exhaust piston, (as you suggested earlier - in ESE?) why not use a lightweight cast

    Or made of something else.
    No cylinder heads, no balance shaft needed, no carburetors, assimetrical timing. Lots of benefits I think.
    175cc via two 48 x 48, ends up not that much taller than a standard engine if you include the spark plug and plug cap.
    Yep, agree! -but with that basic layout in mind, we might be able to do away with the deeply embedded belief in our heads that the Two Stroke Bore/stroke ratio needs to be roughly "square" - this could give us some more freedom to keep down piston speeds! (not talking racing here of course, just my hobby horse (deluded maybe) ie a two stroke generator powerplant for all sorts of purposes!

    Made of something else? I'm not really up there in the world of metallurgy (or anything) - just suggestions, with nothing tested in the real world in a scientific manner, but I'm sure there is a simple answer staring us in the face. (that's going to be easier to overcome than this virus trying to wipe us out!)
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  4. #2854
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    Locked in my shed for four weeks, yay. But not all beer and skittles, I was lucky enough to get a large pre paid gearbox order just before the lock down. So I'm in the process of getting that sorted before I get onto home jobs. So, good I guess, keep the bank off my back.
    Five of these H6 Subaru units and four EA Subaru boxes.
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  5. #2855
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    In saying that, here is something I prepared earlier.
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  6. #2856
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    Hard times! - It sure brings it back to all of us all just how helpless we are - not as clever as we think we are and this emergency makes the process of reviving the two stroke look very insignificant indeed!

    BTW - I recognize that crankcase/gearbox as being "one size fits all" for your projects! - also remember the EA 81 from way back
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  7. #2857
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    This thread has been here for well over 5 years now and that's not bad! - It was initially set up in order to get all this sort of stuff extricated from the main subject going on in ESE - there was so much experimental tuning conversations going on there at the time (and that after all was its original purpose) - however, most of the historic and futuristic stuff was just being ignored and so, tended to just disappear! - it was also getting tangled up with and confusing all the good tuning questions and answers as well.

    However, it seems that even though it has served its purpose, there isn't a lot of interest anymore - but it was good while it lasted! - and it was all light hearted and good fun - but maybe this part of the forum isn't really the place for people who are interested in what happened before, things which actually led up to and allowed us to have the machinery we have today!

    People who are really interested in 'motorcycles' (ie as opposed to 'boneheaded' showmen) really need to know the history and have at least some vision of the future in order to prevent bikes being legislated out of existence!
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  8. #2858
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    Hi Wil,
    Ive followed motorcycles since I was a young man as they always had the highest performance that a common man could afford and still do..Very many engines of all types have lots of design flaws and those turds are polished by the engineering and advertising departments till they shine with a high luster!The public buys them up and more polish gets added yearly..The ones who really know are the poor bastards that have to service and keep them running!I hope the future will bring the 'simple' 2stroke engine back so we dont have to worry with those thousands of 4stroke parts thrashing away against each other!
    As to aircraft engines,the Pratt and Whitney PT6A is a much loved engine(by pilots),but to many of us mechanics its a POS,,but what do we know?Its a multimillion dollar industry that requires constant maintenance which puts money in lots of peoples bank accounts,sooo I guess its all good..
    I dont think this thread will die as long as there are free thinking folk(have seen lots here!),so lets post when we find a head scratcher engine and hopefully some bright minds will grasp a concept and carry on!!

  9. #2859
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    Quote Originally Posted by 190mech View Post
    Hi Wil,
    Ive followed motorcycles since I was a young man as they always had the highest performance that a common man could afford and still do..Very many engines of all types have lots of design flaws and those turds are polished by the engineering and advertising departments till they shine with a high luster!The public buys them up and more polish gets added yearly..The ones who really know are the poor bastards that have to service and keep them running!I hope the future will bring the 'simple' 2stroke engine back ........
    .....I dont think this thread will die as long as there are free thinking folk(have seen lots here!), so lets post when we find a head scratcher engine and hopefully some bright minds will grasp a concept and carry on!!
    At least someone must be looking in here (you being one of them!) and you do make some very good points! (and I have been interested in motorcycles for over 60 years.).

    Discussing the "simple" two stroke - the more simple the better of course! (or as Frits always says KISS) and yes, simple would be nice, but that simplicity (crankcase scavenged, oil mixed with the fuel, the oil eventually collecting in the exhaust, fresh charge escaping into the atmosphere, NOX emissions (apparently caused by 'squish') etc etc - all no problem in racing machinery ..... but in the everyday world??

    I think we need to consider the bigger picture! - Racing only follows on from the machinery we are familiar with every day, - unfortunately, at the moment that doesn't include the two stroke.

    We need to acknowledge that the two stroke isn't mainstream anymore and other engines have been very successful (most often four strokes) but if we can clean up the two stroke, it'll easily get to that mainstream position!

    There are lots of others around here who are well educated in engine design, some free thinking and some actual doers! - some are all of these! and they are the ones who will lead the way and make progress! (ie if some big company doesn't appear and just take everything!).

    I acknowledge that I don't figure much in the above categories!
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  10. #2860
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    At least someone must be looking in here (you being one of them!) and you do make some very good points! (and I have been interested in motorcycles for over 60 years.).

    Discussing the "simple" two stroke - the more simple the better of course! (or as Frits always says KISS) and yes, simple would be nice, but that simplicity (crankcase scavenged, oil mixed with the fuel, the oil eventually collecting in the exhaust, fresh charge escaping into the atmosphere, NOX emissions (apparently caused by 'squish') etc etc - all no problem in racing machinery ..... but in the everyday world??
    Also another long term bike follower and previous owner of two strokes - however, doesn't uniflow answer the problems of crankcase scavenging? Definitely a little more complicated than your average Villiers but no more than current four strokes.
    it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
    those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
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  11. #2861
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    Also another long term bike follower and previous owner of two strokes - however, doesn't uniflow answer the problems of crankcase scavenging? Definitely a little more complicated than your average Villiers but no more than current four strokes.
    Yes I agree wholeheartedly and have been a fan of this layout for as long as I have been interested in bikes! - I was inspired by the commer two stroke diesel truck engine, the Sultzer engine and of course the Junkers - but to be honest it isn't all that complicated in either the Commer or the Junkers engines! - they were lubricated by seperate oil as well - and they were all successful too! - so why not a modern day petrol one?
    When you look at a modern day four stroke the head is just as tall as the bottom end and has a helluva lot of moving parts ..... and a head gasket as well!
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  12. #2862
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    Fifty years ago I thought a 3 cylinder sleeve valve two stroke like Ricardo's design would be a good replacement for the 6 cylinder four strokes used in light airplanes. I did a market survey and it looked like there would be a demand for a smaller, lighter engine with the same power. However, I had no idea of what the development and licensing costs would be. Those costs have doomed many simple upgrades to legacy engines that use 1930s technology. The collapse of the new light plane market means no one will do more than maintain the existing engines. Today the trend is away from IC engines everywhere. We're stuck with looking at the inventive engines designed in the past.

    Lohring Miller

  13. #2863
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    I guess that that those old aircraft flat fours and sixes have served us well and a helluva lot of them have been built!

    Along with Harley Davidson and Briggs & Stratton etc they have been quietly powering things most of our lives without even being noticed and as you say, modified only by embellishments but still using nineteen thirties technology!
    To be honest, they were really the (levelled) pinnacle of development for many of us and anything since including the growth of the two stroke and the four stroke technology (with all sorts of additions to try and keep it on top) are only spikes in development. - a bit unfair assessment of course, but with a ring of truth! ........ but this "outdated technology still managed to keep a lot of investors with steady incomes.

    Now electric is having a go! - I wonder if it will break the love affair with the pre and early post war technology? - or will the virus destroy development and change everything?
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  14. #2864
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    I guess that that those old aircraft flat fours and sixes have served us well and a helluva lot of them have been built!
    Aircraft will rarely be the place where new or even different technology will be tried - the exception of course being during wartime - as 20,000ft is not the place to find it wasn't such a good idea after all.
    it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
    those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
    (PostalDave on ADVrider)

  15. #2865
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete376403 View Post
    Aircraft will rarely be the place where new or even different technology will be tried - the exception of course being during wartime - as 20,000ft is not the place to find it wasn't such a good idea after all.
    Yes and something reliable, even if not perfect would be preferred in that case! ........ but what excuse did Harley Davidson and Briggs & Stratton have? - just let 'well enough' be I guess! - a far cry from the Napier Nomad (a great example of a complicated two stroke!).

    https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...ne-data.31895/

    https://oldmachinepress.com/2019/08/...rcraft-engine/
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