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Thread: Oddball engines and prototypes

  1. #2476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Moore View Post
    AFAIK the H-D fairings were developed in the CalTech wind tunnel by the Wixom Bros (who made touring fairings). Guzzi had their own wind tunnel.
    You are most likely 100% i wonder what Guzzi built in WW2
    I have read in a few places the stylist had more input into the gp and road bikes right up to that bike Harada had in the latish 90/s
    looking at how ugly it was i can understand why.
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    I know the Derbi bikes were extensively wind tunnel tested. but were still pretty
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    Others one would think so did have pretty good access to a tunnel aermacchi seeing as the made planes same with MV and helicopters.

    Guzzi would have need the tunnel given there light slippery singles philosophy after and prior to the mutis early 4 and late 8's

    one of the American GSXr's that were entered in the UFO tests that Sportbike used to have actually used a one based on a XR750TT fairing.
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    https://www.sportrider.com/sr-archiv...fo-1996#page-4
    195 MPH

    According to Cameron Kawasaki used to test all the 2t's somewhere in snow country USA in the middle of winter and then wonder why they gave less power and melted in Summer.
    Jack Williams wanted to get a flow bench and was told unless it was made by AMC he couldn't have one so he had to make one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    The XR heads were supposed to be based on the 350 Aermacchi ones.

    I've stripped a couple of the late 5 speed 350's - and always marvel at how they could turn a light, nimble single into something approaching a HD Road King
    for weight and lack of performance....
    i would not be surprised To be fair though Harley had 50 years to develop a 2 Valve head.
    The lower frame rails and massive centerstand on the late SS350's i think were leadglide parts



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  2. #2477
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    http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/a...espeed150a.jpg

    though

    http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/a...espeed150f.jpg

    Here's some history on the Wixom brothers by Craig Vetter in which the KR and XR fairings are discussed. It was very convenient for H-D to work with Wixom since Jerry Branch had his shop doing the cylinder head work for H-D above the Wixoms.

    http://capttop.blogspot.com/2008/02/...le-design.html

    I had a long-track XR fairing on my Laverda, but it was at the end of the road for the project and I never raced with it:

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    cheers,
    Michael

  3. #2478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Moore View Post
    http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/a...espeed150a.jpg

    though

    http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/a...espeed150f.jpg

    Here's some history on the Wixom brothers by Craig Vetter in which the KR and XR fairings are discussed. It was very convenient for H-D to work with Wixom since Jerry Branch had his shop doing the cylinder head work for H-D above the Wixoms.

    http://capttop.blogspot.com/2008/02/...le-design.html

    I had a long-track XR fairing on my Laverda, but it was at the end of the road for the project and I never raced with it:

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    cheers,
    Michael
    I remember seeing that first one do you have the rest?



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  4. #2479
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    As I said, a through f is the full set. You can either manually change the letter in the link to step through them, or trim the link to go into the folder

    http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/aero/

  5. #2480
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    Couple of posts about 2 Stroke cars on ESE, reminded me of this.
    A UK car magazine did an article about the Volvo with an Evinrude V8 Outboard engine in it.
    Not very informative, and obviously written by someone with no real knowledge of 2 strokes, there was one bit that made me smile: he "quoted" the builders as having said that they Hydra-formed the exhausts...
    Cock-up or quite clever joke?

  6. #2481
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    Quote Originally Posted by guyhockley View Post
    A UK car magazine did an article about the Volvo with an Evinrude V8 Outboard engine in it.... he "quoted" the builders as having said that they Hydra-formed the exhausts...
    Cock-up or quite clever joke?
    Probably just a typo; the pipes were hydroformed. But there is also some Hydra resemblance .
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  7. #2482
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    There is videos on the net of that car being built but i have never seen any articles there was a build one that showed the fabrication that was amazing work but i cant find it.


    I never noticed it breathed from beneath and had throttle bodies?



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  8. #2483
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    That's the problem with the OMC V layout. They breathe through the bottom of the crankcase. Not a problem when the shaft is vertical as sidedraft carbs are fine.
    Memory says the single seater built here in NZ which used a smaller OMC V4 had the engine inverted in relation to that Volvo. Couple of twin choke downdraft Webers sitting on top. Compromised pipe layout of course...but imagine changing jets in that Volvo....
    Reason is a tool - remember where you left it..... The late, great, John Clarke

  9. #2484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    That's the problem with the OMC V layout. They breathe through the bottom of the crankcase. Not a problem when the shaft is vertical as sidedraft carbs are fine.
    Memory says the single seater built here in NZ which used a smaller OMC V4 had the engine inverted in relation to that Volvo. Couple of twin choke downdraft Webers sitting on top. Compromised pipe layout of course...but imagine changing jets in that Volvo....
    i think it may have fuel injection in the first video i can see throttle bodies




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  10. #2485
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    That 2 stroke Volvo is very interesting of course and it can probably GO!....... but (in terms of bikes ), I was just thinking that it demonstrates very clearly why two strokes have been failing in the popularity stakes in recent years (and I hate to see that happening), first is that the plumbers nightmare of exhaust pipes on a multi cylinder two stroke is a very obvious problem and the second is that the smoke coming from a two stroke engine which has been idling for a little while ( also demonstrated by the Suter) is unaccepable to the general public, who have been primed to think that way by four stroke manufacturers, aided and abetted by politicians (the politcians also having been primed by four stroke manufacturers).

    I do know that I gripe a bit, but my gripe is always consistent! - I get myself into all sorts of trouble because of this - and I'll be accused of being NEGATIVE - so I need to say that ..... (to me) being POSITIVE is not about sitting on our arses, squealing about being treated unfairly, ignoring the facts and therefore not dealing with them, (cos they don't exist you see!) and manufacturers rather than lose money fighting the trend, just capitulate and build complicated expensive four strokes to keep the newly converted (and dopey) customers happy

    Me? - I don't think that I carry enough clout or have enough knowledge or ability to address this terrible situation as it stands, but even a dozey old bugger like me can see what is happening.
    Freedom of speech is important but if what we say is considered incorrect by our peers, they will quickly put us right.
    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

  11. #2486
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    Walter Kaaden at MZ reportedly commented that he knew a 2T exhaust was getting near the right dimensions when it couldn't be put on the bike without dragging, burning the rider, or requiring the relocation of some other major component (including the rider).

    Somewhat like this Zabel RGV special:

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    cheers,
    Michael

  12. #2487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Moore View Post
    Walter Kaaden at MZ reportedly commented that he knew a 2T exhaust was getting near the right dimensions when it couldn't be put on the bike without dragging, burning the rider, or requiring the relocation of some other major component (including the rider).
    cheers,
    Michael
    An "oddball" indeed! - but that proves my point conclusively! Walter Kaaden certainly put the two stroke on the map and even he accepted how it would really turn out.
    I wonder if he had been younger and had moved to say America, would he have found the cash to work out a solution to stave off the four stroke advance? - I bet he would have made that effort!
    Too late to try unfortunately, as far as non competition motorcycles are concerned anyway, but there is still a chance with aircraft and for providing lighweight constant speed power such as generators etc. (not meaning stationary engines).

    Hopefully, I'm not causing upset amongst the 'dyed in the wool' two stroke motorcycle fraternity ...... sacrilege!
    Freedom of speech is important but if what we say is considered incorrect by our peers, they will quickly put us right.
    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

  13. #2488
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Hopefully, I'm not causing upset amongst the 'dyed in the wool' two stroke motorcycle fraternity ......
    You probably consider me 'dyed in the wool', but I don't feel upset; you're quite right about several things. I consider two-strokes a hobby nowadays. If I had any sense, I would concentrate on fuel cells by now.

    I made myself rather unpopular by writing: "Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and it will probably stay that way forever".
    But fuel cells don't necessarily need hydrogen any more; some of them can digest alcohol, petrol or even diesel.
    Which corroborates another one of my observations: "The best way to pack hydrogen atoms is between carbon atoms".
    No need for superhigh pressures and superlow temperatures; you just pull up at the gas station and fill up your tank like you've always done. So no need for converting those gas stations either .
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  14. #2489
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    Now we're getting way off topic, but so far fuel cells can't compete with batteries on cost. They probably will have a place on larger vehicles, but even in trucks batteries seem to be good enough. Toyota doesn't agree so we'll see.

    Lohring Miller, two stroke hobbyist for 60 years

  15. #2490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    You probably consider me 'dyed in the wool', but I don't feel upset; you're quite right about several things. I consider two-strokes a hobby nowadays. If I had any sense, I would concentrate on fuel cells by now.
    I made myself rather unpopular by writing: "Hydrogen is the fuel of the future and it will probably stay that way forever".
    No, Frits, I don't consider you that! as you show a lot of interest in anything mechanical - I was meaning those who will focus on only one thing, whether it is right or wrong and are totally blind to the reality of the situation!

    A little like the ultra modern (PC) types - all very "positive " people ...... This modern type of "positivity" is just a rehash of what we used to describe as "burying your head in the sand"!

    Sorry Lohring, - getting off track again! - then that's me!
    Freedom of speech is important but if what we say is considered incorrect by our peers, they will quickly put us right.
    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

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