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Thread: Oddball engines and prototypes

  1. #2071
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken seeber View Post
    Its doesn't seem a huge leap from the 1975 Honda civic?
    Honda CVCC engines have normal inlet and exhaust valves, plus a small auxiliary inlet valve which provides a relatively rich air–fuel mixture to a volume near the spark plug. The remaining air–fuel charge, drawn into the cylinder through the main inlet valve, is leaner than normal. The volume near the spark plug is contained by a small perforated metal plate. Upon ignition flame fronts emerge from the perforations and ignite the remainder of the air–fuel charge. The remaining engine cycle is as per a standard four-stroke engine.
    This combination of a rich mixture near the spark plug, and a lean mixture in the cylinder allowed stable running, yet complete combustion of fuel, thus reducing CO (carbon monoxide) and hydrocarbon emissions. This method allowed the engine to burn less fuel more efficiently without the use of an exhaust gas recirculation valve or a catalytic converter, although those methods were installed later to further improve emission reduction.

  2. #2072
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken seeber View Post
    Achetes are giving two stroke HCCI a shot too! - Junkers way back in the thirties had this design successfuliy working (in diesels ) for aircraft and torpedo boats.
    Still, I think Mazda are ahead at the moment.

    http://achatespower.com/media-center...-piston-engine
    http://achatespower.com/opgci-an-evo...ustion-engine/
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  3. #2073
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    Infiniti variable compression engine:

    https://youtu.be/A6H66xfEZC4

    Looks expensive, though I like the near vertical conrod on power stroke.

  4. #2074
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    I must say that I would prefer to see a two stroke with opposed pistons working well - the fact that the opposed piston two stroke (which I believe is also inherently suitable for HCCI) has been operated successfully as a diesel in the past, in fact was a well proven concept - it might just be a winner in HCCI form too!
    Some people might say that two crankshafts is one too many, (Commer, Sultzer etc. got around that anyway) but then just take a look at the complicated valve gear on a "conventional" engine which uses poppet valves and complicated mechanisms to operate them
    It probably takes up more space anyway!

    FLETTNER has had experience with an experimental opposed piston two stroke.

    Biggest problem is probably the stigma associated with two strokes nowadays! - but here's hoping.
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  5. #2075
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbw View Post
    Infiniti variable compression engine:

    https://youtu.be/A6H66xfEZC4

    Looks expensive, though I like the near vertical conrod on power stroke.
    I think that this concept and the MCE5 are on a par and probably fine on an otherwise conventional four stroke engine, but of course I am am forever looking at the possibility of a two stroke and HCCI - it obviously would produce assymetric port timing, but (in this case), would it be compatible with the requirements for suitable port timing? - would it be wrong way round? - however, it's too late at night and I'm too dozey to work it all out!
    Freedom of speech is important but if what we say is considered incorrect by our peers, they will quickly put us right.
    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

  6. #2076
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    Ken & Frits,
    Just a quick diversion here before I shut down for the night:-
    Here's our bloody old Yorkshire mate again - love him or hate him, he calls a spade a "shovel" and he's f****g entertaining! See this one all the way through - to me it's his best one yet!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW9wtsK_XTw
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    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

  7. #2077
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    Will do. Good night Will.

  8. #2078
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Ken & Frits,
    Just a quick diversion here before I shut down for the night:-
    Here's our bloody old Yorkshire mate again - love him or hate him, he calls a spade a "shovel" and he's f****g entertaining! See this one all the way through - to me it's his best one yet!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW9wtsK_XTw
    Well Willy, this time I have to agree with MFM on a couple of things:
    1. That is if a new technology (say the Duke) was any good, some mfgr would have picked it up, eg HHO.
    2. The "big oil" power. I think we've all heard of how the "oil companies" bought out some new idea/technology, thereby preventing it coming to market so they can keep selling oil. Remember the tablets that could be added to water and, voila, a petrol substitute.

    Conclusion: Good technology will naturally come to the fore and be accepted, however it has to be tempered with the fact that if there is a new technology around the corner, maybe we'll just focus on that, rather than spending $s on a potentially short term, but quickly superceded, improvement.
    "Perfection is the enemy of progress"

  9. #2079
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken seeber View Post
    ........ Remember the tablets that could be added to water and, voila, a petrol substitute.
    Snake oil tablets?

    Quote Originally Posted by ken seeber View Post
    ...........Conclusion: Good technology will naturally come to the fore and be accepted, however it has to be tempered with the fact that if there is a new technology around the corner, maybe we'll just focus on that, rather than spending $s on a potentially short term, but quickly superceded, improvement.
    I agree 100% with that Ken! - Like all those powerful Hi tech piston engines developed around the end of WW2, scuppered by the jets!
    http://www.npht.org/nomad/4579733511
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Nomad
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    - and both two strokes!

    Then ...... http://www.spannerhead.com/2012/08/2...hitney-r-4360/
    Click image for larger version. 

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    BTW, how's the recovery going?
    Freedom of speech is important but if what we say is considered incorrect by our peers, they will quickly put us right.
    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

  10. #2080
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    Getting back into the smaller stuff, this has probably been discussed before somewhere, but does anybody know if this concept has found its way into any vehicles, or has it just become yet another "no takers" scenario?

    http://www.ilmor.co.uk/capabilities/...5-stroke_1.php

    Breakthroughs don't seem to be snapped up like they used to be and a lot of very promising stuff is just disappearing!
    Ken is probably right when he says that good technology will be accepted, but maybe there is a glut of good ideas now (in the IC engine world) and with electricity getting a grip, the demand for new IC ideas has tapered off and this brilliant stuff unfortunately could be lost - I guess some of it may still be used in IC/Electric hybrids.
    I know this one is probably aimed at the Hybrid market as well, but Hybrid engines to me aren't quite as exciting, however if that's progress, then it's just got to be!
    Freedom of speech is important but if what we say is considered incorrect by our peers, they will quickly put us right.
    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

  11. #2081
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    Frits,
    Quite a while ago I think I tried to describe this Russian design, (Veselovsky) to you, but couldn't find it.
    Seems it was meant as an alternative to the Wankel - may suffer some of the same problems as the Wankel.
    It disappeared completely from the net for a while,but it now seems to be back in circulation!

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    A lot of other interesting Russian designs here:-
    http://russianpatents.com/patent/207/2078221.html
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    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

  12. #2082
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Frits, Quite a while ago I think I tried to describe this Russian design, (Veselovsky) to you, but couldn't find it. Seems it was meant as an alternative to the Wankel - may suffer some of the same problems as the Wankel. It disappeared completely from the net for a while,but it now seems to be back in circulation!
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    A lot of other interesting Russian designs here:-
    http://russianpatents.com/patent/207/2078221.html
    That Veselovsky engine seems to have a lot in common with the LiquidPiston engine, like the stationary sealings in the housing and the three combustion chambers that have a much better volume-to-surface-ratio and maintain an almost constant volume during the combustion phase, plus-points that the Wankel lacks.
    The LiquidPiston's disadvantage however is the inlet and exhaust ducting through the rotor, inviting thermal issues.
    https://www.google.nl/search?q=liqui...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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    , ,

  13. #2083
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    Yes, plenty of similarities there - I think Veselovsky gave them the idea!
    Looks to me that the biggest problem for most rotary engines from the old WW1 rotary aircraft engines to the Wankel and everything between, is how to guide the exhaust gases out to the atmosphere.
    Easy to dump it all out in the air (ie in the case of aircraft) I guess! ...... but I have heard that Felix Wankel himself was pissed off when NSU changed his design from a rotating outer housing to having the inner part rotating (now the rotor as we know it).
    Of course it would have been slightly difficult to gather up the gases from a rotating housing and put them into a sensible quiet exhaust system!
    Freedom of speech is important but if what we say is considered incorrect by our peers, they will quickly put us right.
    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

  14. #2084
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    ...I have heard that Felix Wankel himself was pissed off when NSU changed his design from a rotating outer housing to having the inner part rotating (now the rotor as we know it). Of course it would have been slightly difficult to gather up the gases from a rotating housing and put them into a sensible quiet exhaust system!
    Yes, old Felix was pissed because in its original form both the rotor and the housing rotated around fixed points, so there was no need for any balancing weights.
    It was a nice idea but fitting the auxiliaries was a nightmare, so NSU opted for the stationary housing, necessitating a rotor that was both orbiting and rotating.
    Even to this day the German language distinguishes between Drehkolbenmotor (rotating piston engine) and Kreiskolbenmotor (orbiting piston engine).

  15. #2085
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Yes, old Felix was pissed because in its original form both the rotor and the housing rotated around fixed points, so there was no need for any balancing weights.
    It was a nice idea but fitting the auxiliaries was a nightmare, so NSU opted for the stationary housing, necessitating a rotor that was both orbiting and rotating.
    Even to this day the German language distinguishes between Drehkolbenmotor (rotating piston engine) and Kreiskolbenmotor (orbiting piston engine).
    How about Drehkreiskolbenmotor?
    Its a pity that people like Wankel and Froede hadn't collaborated more earlier on and actually worked out the design together, seems like it was designed and built from two entirely different points of view, one from an academic engineer's viewpoint and the other from a sensible manufacturers viewpoint.
    The only instance I can think of, ie a happy arrangement between two people with different backgrounds was Rolls and Royce, Rolls being a "monied" aristocrat and buisness man, and Royce a small time garage owner (who built his own cars).
    Freedom of speech is important but if what we say is considered incorrect by our peers, they will quickly put us right.
    P.C. will eventually destroy our right to tell the truth.

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