Ouch. Now that's a Fine!

[oneblackflag]

I think it was $10 grand each offense, and they both had 2 offenses, or did I read it wrong.
Still excessive in my mind.

Its 15k per offensive... Don't know how it was 40k between them, but I'm no mathinst. I like to say 20 as it's slightly more dramatic.

[Flip]

I think the fine for a death espcially in this case would be about half a mill, think 20k would be about right for giving the fingers to the DoL.

What you do at home is one thing, what you do at work is another. An employer, a company has to legally manage risk in the workplace and has no right to place its workers at risk.

[swbarnett]

So are people who blindy disregard them that's why others have had to do the thinking for them and why we have all this H & S bullshit

Dead wrong. We have this H & S bullshit because there are plenty of fuckwits in this world that can't mind their own fucken business.

[swbarnett]

An employer ... has no right to place its workers at risk.

This is a large part of the problem. It all sounds so sensible when phrased like this.

I agree with the above with one caveat - WITHIN REASON. And no H & S zealot is qualified to say what's reasonable for a given individual. Now, if an employee complained that they were being placed beyond the risk level that they were comfortable with then that would be another matter.

[Flip]

This is a large part of the problem. It all sounds so sensible when phrased like this.

I agree with the above with one caveat - WITHIN REASON. And no H & S zealot is qualified to say what's reasonable for a given individual. Now, if an employee complained that they were being placed beyond the risk level that they were comfortable with then that would be another matter.

The law says "all practical steps". I have been an engineer for 30+ years during this time I have had two fatial accidents at work. One was when a bundle of steel slipped out of a gangtry crane and hit a worker the second was at the Te papa site when a tilt slab fell on a man. I might suggest that once one of your work mates is killed at work your tune will change.

Sounds to me like a $20k after the company was told to smarten its H+S was a relatively small fine.

[Winston001]

I think it was $10 grand each offense, and they both had 2 offenses, or did I read it wrong.
Still excessive in my mind.

Yep you are correct. Four charges, $10,000 fine on each charge.

Lets face it - these people are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. The elevator isn't going all the way to the top.

They were warned and warned...and warned. Stupid is as stupid does.

Hell I was brought up on a farm and nobody ever wore helmets. But motorcyclists didn't used to wear them either. No seatbelts in cars years ago.

Times change. We don't like it but its arrogant and pig-headed to think you can ignore this stuff. Which is what these dimwitted hillbillys did.

[Winston001]

Word to the wise.

These geniuses didn't bother going to the Court hearing, nor did they get a lawyer to represent them.

A well-constructed plea in mitigation from a lawyer would have halved the fines. Plus if it was me I'd have insisted they turn up, best dressed, and looking very sorry for themselves. Judges notice that stuff and it makes a big difference.

[oldrider]

Word to the wise.

These geniuses didn't bother going to the Court hearing, nor did they get a lawyer to represent them.

A well-constructed plea in mitigation from a lawyer would have halved the fines. Plus if it was me I'd have insisted they turn up, best dressed, and looking very sorry for themselves. Judges notice that stuff and it makes a big difference.

True Winston!

Hows that song go again - "I fought the law and the law won" - kinda situation! ... Underestimate your opposition at your peril!

[oneblackflag]

Hell I was brought up on a farm and nobody ever wore helmets. But motorcyclists didn't used to wear them either. No seatbelts in cars years ago.

Times change. We don't like it but its arrogant and pig-headed to think you can ignore this stuff. Which is what these dimwitted hillbillys did.

Yes one must follow every new law without complaint no matter how silly. Afterall we are all just mindless drones incapable of personal responsibility; working for TPTB.

How on earth did you survive your time not wearing a helmet? Oh things were different back then right? Now that it doesn't effect you, you're quite happy to call them dimwitted hillbillies... Yet you behaved in the same way

[Kickaha]

Oh things were different back then right?

Yes they were different, in that more people were killed and injured in workplace accidents

Personal responsibily? what a joke

[skippa1]

Yes they were different, in that more people were killed and injured in workplace accidents

Personal responsibily? what a joke

You dont or cant take responsibility for yourself?

[swbarnett]

The law says "all practical steps".

There in lies the rub. Who defines what is practical? Certainly OSH and it's ilk have proven themselves incapable of making this determination.

I have been an engineer for 30+ years during this time I have had two fatal accidents at work. One was when a bundle of steel slipped out of a gantry crane and hit a worker the second was at the Te papa site when a tilt slab fell on a man. I might suggest that once one of your work mates is killed at work your tune will change.

If I read this correctly you're saying that "all practical steps" were not taken to prevent these accidents? You may well be right, I have no idea. All I'm saying is that some know-it-all that doesn't work in the factory every day is in no position to judge either. To my mind the only person in a position to judge this is the employee (for themselves) or their immediate superior.

Sounds to me like a $20k after the company was told to smarten its H+S was a relatively small fine.

But without detailed knowledge of the exact circumstances of this particular farm who are we (or any outsider) to comment? Has their supposedly lacking H+S policy lead to an injury of any kind?

[swbarnett]

Times change.

Not always for the better.

[Tazz]

I think the fine for a death espcially in this case would be about half a mill, think 20k would be about right for giving the fingers to the DoL.

What you do at home is one thing, what you do at work is another. An employer, a company has to legally manage risk in the workplace and has no right to place its workers at risk.

How is what you do at home one thing? Because you don't want them there and think it would be overkill? Welcome to the point of view of a lot of the workplace rules.... If you're all for safety, practice what you preach.
Why should businesses compensate your lack of attention to safety at home because you think it isn't needed? Isn't that exactly the same argument employers use? Why is it not OK for them to disagree but it's ok for you when you don't even pay any ACC levies in an area that is over represented in accident stats?

Where does the buck stop? Once they are finished red taping workplaces for a bunch of dumb shit (some of it is needed for sure, don't get me wrong) don't for a second think they won't buy some more red tape and find the next thing to throw it at, then the next thing and the next.
They have to keep being seen to be justifying their existence otherwise they'd be out of a job.

You realize motorcycles are dangerous right?

[Kickaha]

To my mind the only person in a position to judge this is the employee (for themselves) or their immediate superior.

To many employees are happy to take shortcuts and put themselves or others at risk and then the employer can get nailed for it


Little bit in the press today about a fatal quad bike accident, it claimed there were 850 farm related quad bike accidents a lot of which were head and chest injuries and 5 deaths for a 12 month period, the deaths were 28% of farm related fatalities