Learning from accidents

[Grashopper]

If your scanning skills belief was as trustworthy as you think why do we not see in the media that all those that have died on the road
would be alive if they had "Scanning Skills" Maybe you need to go public with your scanning skills panacea that will eliminate the road toll?

They did go public with it. It's called rider training. How long has it been since you have done one? Maybe it is time to freshen up your skills?

Why is the road toll so high? Because humans make mistakes, get distracted, or over confident, or are just too thick to think that they need any actual training. It also doesn't help that it is just too easy to get a motorbike license. Some theoretical questions and the Basic Handling Test and they let people on the road. And that must have been much worse in the past.

So, all of that doesn't help the statistics. Rider training does help. The question should actually be, how high would the road toll be, if it wasn't for training courses teaching riders, among many other things, to scan ahead, to try and expect what could happen?

[awayatc]

You have a false impression from rider training that it will give you 100 percent protection and that could very well be true in terms of situations a rider has 100% control over but for situations where other motorists and conditions come into it through actions they initiate that 100% protection is no longer the case as things can happen too fast for you to even brake. I suppose you will never believe it unless it happens to you like a few others on this site. Does your rider training make you aware of that because if they don't they are not telling you the full story.

Your mistake is your insistence that everybody is at least as thick and unskilled as you...

Those unfortunates who are, will (or already have) collect their Darwin award

As will you.....

unless you ride within your skill levels

but even then

mobility scooter riders are not exempt.........

[nzspokes]

You have a false impression from rider training that it will give you 100 percent protection and that could very well be true in terms of situations a rider has 100% control over but for situations where other motorists and conditions come into it through actions they initiate that 100% protection is no longer the case as things can happen too fast for you to even brake. I suppose you will never believe it unless it happens to you like a few others on this site. Does your rider training make you aware of that because if they don't they are not telling you the full story.

You seem to be of the belief that you can be 100% safe on a motorcycle. This is false. Motorcycle riding is done by people that are not risk adverse. But it is a learned skill. A skill that benefits a lot from training. One skill that is trained is scanning. I have done a training session where the trainer via headset has listed all the risks he could see on a straight road that had no other traffic on it. This highlighted to me how much I wasn't seeing. I now do this in my head as practice when riding, it also seems to help build concentration.

If you cannot concentrate on the job at hand when riding a motorcycle you are a serious risk to yourself and other road users. No trainer has ever told me that training they give will take away the danger of what we do. Failure to understand the basics of roadcraft and lack of ability to concentrate for extended periods of time will increase dramatically your risk.

You may find these UTube clips of use, even though not all laws etc are applicable to New Zealand you may get something from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvs...Qhe_MUgTA9-hNH

[Grashopper]

You have a false impression from rider training that it will give you 100 percent protection and that could very well be true in terms of situations a rider has 100% control over but for situations where other motorists and conditions come into it through actions they initiate that 100% protection is no longer the case as things can happen too fast for you to even brake. I suppose you will never believe it unless it happens to you like a few others on this site. Does your rider training make you aware of that because if they don't they are not telling you the full story.

Actually, common sense tells me that.

Rider training is a way to increase my chances to stay alive and don't get hurt. If you want 100% safe you really should stay off the bike.

I don't really understand, why you're so adamant against any kind of rider training. When was the last course you've done?

[Mushu]

Maybe you should re-do your car driving license, part of it (when I did mine in NZ only about 6 or 7 years ago) was calling out potential hazards as you drive. I can see how some would find it difficult as plenty of those I have seen seem to just concentrate on what their speed is and what the car directly ahead of them is doing.

Cassina, I challenge you to find even one professional truck driver who agrees with your idea of hazard perception. It would be impossible to drive a heavy vehicle with no hazard perception skills, they dont stop or turn like a car or bike does.

[swbarnett]

Some theoretical questions and the Basic Handling Test and they let people on the road. And that must have been much worse in the past.

Walk in, give details, get learners license. That's all I did.

[swbarnett]

You have a false impression from rider training that it will give you 100 percent protection and that could very well be true in terms of situations a rider has 100% control over but for situations where other motorists and conditions come into it through actions they initiate that 100% protection is no longer the case as things can happen too fast for you to even brake.

If you have an accident - 99.99999% of the time you fucked up. The most important question after ANY accident, no matter how minor, is "what could I have done differently to prevent it?" This is why I've only ever had minor accidents. The answers to that question have helped give me the skills to stay rubber side down or at least turn what could have been a major into a minor.

[swbarnett]

If you want 100% safe you really should stay of the bike.

And out of a car, truck, bus, plane etc....

Actually there is only one time when anyone can be 100% safe - after you're dead.

[bluninja]

I do it to a point but as I said if I took it as serious as you I would give up riding. My view perhaps comes about due to the fact that in all the bad accidents I have been in which number about 4 in 35 years things happened too fast to even brake let alone have time to scan.

4 in 35 years and your perception is that "things happened too fast to even brake". To me this suggests that your are repeating the same failed approach to your riding and having the "same" accidents i.e. you've learned nothing. I have only had 2 in 36 years (but there's time and opportunity for more), all below the posted speed limit. The first was a whole series of failures, including putting myself in a dangerous position.....and not scanning far enough ahead to see the potential hazard that should have made me change my position to a safer one. The second was unavoidable, but my scanning of the vehicles around me gave me a clue that something was amiss, and allowed me to be on the brakes before 3 people appeared in my lane. As a result the idiot, I hit, just got a bruise on his cheek where I flipped him over the top of me with my head. I just had a sore neck.

I have been very fortunate in my motoring life that my impatience, impetuousness, and bad choices have not resulted in serious injury or damage (with the one exception) and allowed me to learn from them. Luck runs out, regularly practiced, good riding skills don't.

[swbarnett]

Motorcycle riding is done by people that are not risk adverse.

And people that are riding along in blissful ignorance of the dangers around them and their own potential to mitigate the risk.

[Edbear]

Some very sound advice here. I did a Defensive Driving Course back in '76 and it's stood me in good stead ever since. My only accident was judged by the SCU as a genuine accident with no blame on myself or my vehicle. Rather, I was complimented on being able to avoid any other vehicles.

I strongly endorse Karel Pavich of Pro Rider and others like her as being the best thing any rider could invest the small sum of money asked, in.

[FJRider]

If one doesn't learn from one's fatal mistakes, one could have a problem.

One does not learn from one's own fatal mistake ...



Others ... just point and say "I would never be that stupid" ...

[Katman]

No it is not me who thinks they can be 100% safe on a bike....

I don't recall anyone on here ever saying you can be 100% safe on a motorcycle.

Maybe your riding skills are matched only by your reading skills.

[nzspokes]

No it is not me who thinks they can be 100% safe on a bike but some one here who have done rider training
or who claim to have mind reading ability or scanning skills or whatever other power they claim to have that has made them become crash proof irrespective of whether they or another motorist screws up. I remember another poster on here last year saying that the reason why rider training is not compulsory is because it creates an overconfidence in ability in some riders which I believe is what many on here who have debated with me have as none of them has struck a situation where shit has happened to quick to even brake and they have it in their minds I am at fault for not having their scanning ability which in the case of the dog I hit would require me for example to be able to look over a fence and up a driveway before reaching the driveway and as for the head on collision I was in coming off a one way bridge, for that to be avoidable by me I would have to have senses before even getting on to the bridge that a guy was going to come around the bend on the other side of it with the belief it was a two way bridge. I have posted these actual accident examples on here before and no one has said that rider training would have taught me how to avoid either other than it would never happen to them as they can scan and mind read both the thinking of drivers and dogs they can't see. And you think I am the over confident one eh????

Rider training will become more necessary with changes in rider licencing is my understanding.

You hit a dog head on? Considering your average mutt would be about 300mm wide head on thats a good effort. Shame you could use some of the other 2 odd meters of road lane to go past it.

[Katman]

You hit a dog head on?

Your reading skills are clearly on a par with hers.