Learning from accidents

[unstuck]

I've had plenty of "Issues" with 'Possums ... their heads don't crush under the front wheel and usually just roll off it to the side ...

Yeah, them and hares seem to have hard heads.

[FJRider]

Grab a dictionary and look up "Peripheral Vision". Learn to use it!

A lack of Peripheral vision ... might mean Tunnel vision is the issue.

[bluninja]

I only had one accident when I was learning that I could put down to inexperience and that was coming off when stopping for lights on the downhill of a bridge on a wet day and I possibly either gave it too much front brake or did not watch for painted lines. I know I would have been taught to watch out for painted lines in a riding school but like I said they were not around in the late 70s.

Is this included in the 4 accidents?? Did the traffic lights come out of nowhere so fast you didn't have time to brake ?

[FJRider]

I only had one accident when I was learning ...

If you have already stopped Learning ... there really is no hope for you. More accidents are then a certainty ...


Good luck with that.

[bluninja]

SNIP......
BTW immediately after a 2 day advanced training course I tried to add this skill/technique to my riding and it made my riding less safe and did my head in as I was trying to implement all I'd learnt at once. I had to prioritise the skills and practice them one by one and then habituate them within my riding so that they become automatic. When something becomes habituated it takes less conscious effort (less tiring) and is quicker than processing it consciously.

Here's what I typed... and your misinterpretation below

SNIP
You said what you were taught made you feel unsafe which does not sound like the sort of riding school I would want to go to. Now you follow their instructions automatically whose to say in theory you are any less unsafe?

At no point did I say what I was taught made me feel unsafe. It was my attempt to implement a whole series of techniques into my existing riding style, in one hit, that made my riding less safe. I recognised this, and embedded the new skills and techniques over a longer period of time. The instructor at Shire Training Services died of a stroke having never had an RTA on a motorbike. I'd take his training and advice over yours any day.

My riding techniques and skills are habituated so that I no longer need to consciously think about them. That is completely different to your assertion that I follow their instructions (based on UK Police Roadcraft) automatically.

Two questions: Was there no Star Rider scheme in NZ in the 70's (which would have had you riding more than 34 years since you say it's continuous riding) for you to learn. Why do you presume that all current rider training is aimed at going faster on the track?

[FJRider]

Why do you presume that all current rider training is aimed at going faster on the track?

I have always believed Rider training is intended to save your life ... not save your time.

[nzspokes]

I have always believed Rider training is intended to save your life ... not save your time.

I do regular track training. Speed is not spoken of, in fact we have to tape up our speedos. And no timing is allowed.

What is spoken about is good lines. Good braking. Looking through turns. Good gear changing. Never speed. Main word used is smooth.

[nzspokes]

Is this included in the 4 accidents?? Did the traffic lights come out of nowhere so fast you didn't have time to brake ?

Back in the 70s the fuckers just jumped up like bamboo.

Really, 4 crashes? Maybe time to give up then.

[Katman]

Two questions: Was there no Star Rider scheme in NZ in the 70's (which would have had you riding more than 34 years since you say it's continuous riding) for you to learn. Why do you presume that all current rider training is aimed at going faster on the track?

I did the Apple Riding Course back in 1982 so there was that sort of scheme available if you looked for it. ( Not sure what year Apple started though).

Just checked - they started in 1973. (Don't know what year they started offering the riding course though).

[samgab]

Thankfully, due to the "ignore" setting, I'm spared a lot of what I've concluded, based on the replies, is some fairly tedious reading in this thread from a certain user who seems unsafe to be on public roads...
However, I think it all comes down to two key words:
"Situational Awareness".
2-wheeled riders need to have it!

We should be aware of everything that is going on around us at all times. Potential hazards, pedestrians, kids, parked cars, driveways, potholes, ice, oil patches, gravel, metal covers, road paint, oncoming vehicles, vehicles at intersections, other vehicles going the same direction that might accelerate, swerve, or brake unexpectedly, the list is endless. It can all be seen and prepared for by experienced and skillful riders. I always anticipate the possibility of every other road user making the wrong move, making the wrong choice, pulling out in front of me or cutting me off. Then I'm prepared with an escape plan when it inevitably does happen. When you get used to doing that all the time, it becomes second nature, as indicated by other commenters here.

Still, mistakes can happen, but they're less likely when riding with a healthy pessimistic view of other road users skills, attitudes, and abilities.

I only ride a scooter at the moment, because it's an incredibly cheap way to commute, but I've been riding various motorbikes, farm bikes, and trail bikes for 27 years, and I've only had one minor crash where I was the rider, when I was a young over-confident schoolboy, on my way home from school, turned into my home street, and road workers had poured some fresh gravel onto the street where I live during the day. A road I thought I knew the surface of well, gave me false confidence, my front wheel slid out and I slid off to the side of the road, not hitting anything, fortunately. But I learnt my lesson, and now as well as all the other things I need to be aware of, I'm very conscious of road surface condition, even on roads I think I know well.

[unstuck]

However, I think it all comes down to two key words:
"Situational Awareness".
ALL ROAD USERS need to have it!

Well put, but changed that one bit for you.

[ruaphu]

it all comes down to two key words:
"Situational Awareness".
2-wheeled riders need to have it!

, .

BINGO,!..........................give that man a beer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[T.W.R]

"Situational Awareness".
2-wheeled riders need to have it!

UNstuck made the right adjustment for you.......ALL ROAD USERS

We should be aware of everything that is going on around us at all times. Potential hazards, pedestrians, kids, parked cars, driveways, potholes, ice, oil patches, gravel, metal covers, road paint, oncoming vehicles, vehicles at intersections, other vehicles going the same direction that might accelerate, swerve, or brake unexpectedly, the list is endless. It can all be seen and prepared for by experienced and skillful riders. When you get used to doing that all the time, it becomes second nature, as indicated by other commenters here.

Unfortunately you've only covered the visual side; as you say in the last line of the 1st sentence "the list is endless" but your list is weighted against the urban environment. Outside the city limits there are many more factors that can influence things which other senses can identify before sight picks them up (can happen in the urban enviroment but to a lesser extent).
Time in the saddle creates the 2nd nature; it's a 6th sense that never stops developing, the day it does you're in trouble.

[eldog]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...tar-sticky-tar

Like ice, black ice, diesel, tar bleed can sneak up on you, especially on dark country roads.

Don't assume the road surface is the same all the way around a corner

long periods for hot weather followed by light rain will reduce tyre grip significantly (hot weather, will make it rise to the surface and be slippery too) - like ice, mid corner, big patches.
See if there is some skid training available an practise so you know what to do instinctively.
I tried to remember what I had read in a book 4 months earlier. I didnt do too bad when I look back now.

get off your bike and walk on it - see how little traction there is.

I learnt from my accident, hope others will learn from my experience.

Riding its YOUR responsibility.

[FJRider]

... A road I thought I knew the surface of well, gave me false confidence, my front wheel slid out and I slid off to the side of the road, not hitting anything, fortunately. But I learnt my lesson, and now as well as all the other things I need to be aware of, I'm very conscious of road surface condition, even on roads I think I know well.

Assumptions are the Mother of all fuck-ups ... my favorite three.

Assumption 1. The road you are riding has not changed since you last rode it ...

Assumption 2. All other road users WILL be operating their vehicle in accordance with ALL Traffic Legislation. Even if YOU are not.

Assumption 3. If you cannot see any other traffic on the road ... there wont be.


Murphys Law can (and will) apply at any time .. usually at the worst possible time.


Feel free to add assumptions of your own ...